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I think that making money part is due to a game of musical chairs. No actual value is generated.

smt88 6y ago
> No actual value is generated. I actually (unfortunately) don't think this is true in a financial sense. The only people with an incentive to use a semi-anonymous "currency" with extremely high transactions fees are criminals. You can argue that not all crimes are harmful or immoral, and you'd be right, but that's outside the scope of my comment. The more crypto is used as a payment for crime, the more value it has. It becomes an investment vehicle for crime. If you think global crime will increase (and increasingly use crypto), then you can invest in it using Monero or whatever people think offers the best combination of liquidity and privacy these days.
- louwrentius 6y ago
  I think you are right in a narrow sense. But from the perspective of a society, it seems to create 'negative' value. I have a few words to say on that. https://louwrentius.com/cryptocurrencies-are-detrimental-to-society.html https://louwrentius.com/cryptocurrencies-are-detrimental-to-...
rbecker 6y ago
Facilitating transactions is a valuable service.
- louwrentius 6y ago
  That tech already exists with a fraction of the transactional cost, in the far majority of situations.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    That's a different claim than you started out with. Additionally, remittence gets a lot harder internationally. Some of those services charge very hefty fees. Being the best at something is different than not doing something at all. You don't have to be the very best at something to generate value doing it.
buhrmi 6y ago
Shitcoins can be fun. Fun can be valuable.
johnrgrace 6y ago
No, when the flow of money is constrained it interupts actual labor. The great depression is the classic instance where if money had been made work would have been done and everyone would have been better off.
bawolff 6y ago
What does "generating value" mean in this context. Aren't most transactions just shifting resources around? If i have a bunch of cookies and my friend has a bunch of cup-cakes, and i trade some cookies for some cupcakes, what abstract value was created? The total number of cupcakes and cookies stayed the same, they just shifted around (like musical chairs). Neither me nor my friend are any richer, although we may be happier. Was this transaction useless?

> No actual value is generated. I actually (unfortunately) don't think this is true in a financial sense. The only people with an incentive to use a semi-anonymous "currency" with extremely high transactions fees are criminals. You can argue that not all crimes are harmful or immoral, and you'd be right, but that's outside the scope of my comment. The more crypto is used as a payment for crime, the more value it has. It becomes an investment vehicle for crime. If you think global crime will increase (and increasingly use crypto), then you can invest in it using Monero or whatever people think offers the best combination of liquidity and privacy these days.

louwrentius 6y ago
I think you are right in a narrow sense. But from the perspective of a society, it seems to create 'negative' value. I have a few words to say on that. https://louwrentius.com/cryptocurrencies-are-detrimental-to-society.html https://louwrentius.com/cryptocurrencies-are-detrimental-to-...

rbecker 6y ago

Facilitating transactions is a valuable service.

louwrentius 6y ago
That tech already exists with a fraction of the transactional cost, in the far majority of situations.
- bawolff 6y ago
  That's a different claim than you started out with. Additionally, remittence gets a lot harder internationally. Some of those services charge very hefty fees. Being the best at something is different than not doing something at all. You don't have to be the very best at something to generate value doing it.

buhrmi 6y ago

Shitcoins can be fun. Fun can be valuable.

johnrgrace 6y ago

No, when the flow of money is constrained it interupts actual labor. The great depression is the classic instance where if money had been made work would have been done and everyone would have been better off.

bawolff 6y ago

What does "generating value" mean in this context. Aren't most transactions just shifting resources around? If i have a bunch of cookies and my friend has a bunch of cup-cakes, and i trade some cookies for some cupcakes, what abstract value was created? The total number of cupcakes and cookies stayed the same, they just shifted around (like musical chairs). Neither me nor my friend are any richer, although we may be happier. Was this transaction useless?