4 ms·

Err, but why do you have to prove it for every next job?... In reality, it's a legal way for: 1. Ageism - not many seniors are desperate enough or have a free

by zerr 6y ago

Err, but why do you have to prove it for every next job?... In reality, it's a legal way for: 1. Ageism - not many seniors are desperate enough or have a free time for Competitive Programming preps. 2. Making switching jobs harder - for every next job one has to prepare again, because nobody is using Competitive Programming stuff during real work, so you forget. Keep in mind that CP != CS. And CP is not everyone's cup of tea. It is a separate discipline/subject with its own trivia knowledge & tricks. CP uses Computer Science the same way as e.g. Physics or Biology use Math.

jkcorrea 6y ago
#2 doesn't make sense, though: If I'm company B, trying to poach from company A, it would be in my best interest to make the leap to applying/interviewing less difficult, not more for employee's of company A. Unless you're implying a set of companies are all in league with each other to reduce churn/competition for talent
- strbean 6y ago
  > Unless you're implying a set of companies are all in league with each other to reduce churn/competition for talent They have been caught doing so in the past. [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation#%22No_cold_call%22_agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
- kkkiiiooo 6y ago
  > Unless you're implying a set of companies are all in league with each other to reduce churn/competition for talent This is a proven reality, and has been out in the open for a long time.
  - BurningFrog 6y ago
    Then a few links to those proofs should be easy to produce?
    - bretpiatt 6y ago
      On this same thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24182126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24182126
      - BurningFrog 6y ago
        Yeah, I know about that one. Wondered if anything new had come to light. This was 10 years ago and involved 8 companies. Concluding from one crime that they all do it, and that's just what those people are like, you can't trust them etc, is an impulse we all do well to resist. Of course, concluding that nothing like this will ever happen again is also naive. The incentive to cooperate is certainly still there. My impression is that since the 2010 case, wages have gone up dramatically in that class of companies. There are also more big companies with owners who aren't pals from before. I think. Just guessing, relly.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pandaman 6y ago
  FAANG don't really want to poach each other that much, as a sibling comment says, they had been already caught in the illegal non-poaching collusion. But even without any such collusion active they undestand that people would jump back and forth between these comapnies, ratcheting TC up every jump. What they need is that somebody who passed the interview believed it was a lucky break and would not tempt fate trying a similar interview at another company. If they considered the interview just a filter, they probably would not be so lenient with letting people to apply many times and even encouraging this.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
> why do you have to prove it for every next job Obviously, each company can't blindly trust the interviewing practices of everyone's previous employer. > Ageism - not many seniors are desperate enough or have a free time for Competitive Programming preps. In my experience, senior developers don't need anywhere near as much prep as junior developers for these interviews. Leetcode problems are difficult when you're a new college grad with zero years of programming experience. They're significantly easier after you've been programming for 10 years. > Making switching jobs harder - for every next job one has to prepare again Companies aren't going out of their way to make it harder to hire good employees into their own companies. Leetcode isn't an industry-wide conspiracy. Companies are using it because they believe it's a good filtering mechanism for candidates. When the Big N companies have higher rejection rates than Ivy League universities, they can afford to be selective. > Keep in mind that CP != CS. The problems are designed to test CS skills. How else would you suggest reorganizing the interviews to test for CS skills?
- bosswipe 6y ago
  I've been programming for 10 years and I'm pretty good at it, at every job I've had I get lots of praise and recognition and accelerated promotions. But I have a hard time with leetcode problems and have failed several interviews because of them. It's not that I can't learn the leetcode tricks, it's that I don't have the motivation or the time to drill for months on them so that I can retain all the tricks. I don't have a CS degree so I think that might be the difference, I didn't get to spend four years thinking about algorithms and data structures. Leetcode interviews are a form of gatekeeping that CS degree people use to filter out non-CS people.
  - shloosh 6y ago
    I also don't have a CS degree, and got hired at a FAANG company. If you want to quickly get up to speed on the data science basics, check out "Cracking the Coding Interview" by Gayle Laakmann McDowell. Her YouTube videos are also useful. Certainly, there are other methods, but this is one that I found useful.
- zerr 6y ago

by zerr 6y ago

jkcorrea 6y ago

#2 doesn't make sense, though: If I'm company B, trying to poach from company A, it would be in my best interest to make the leap to applying/interviewing less difficult, not more for employee's of company A. Unless you're implying a set of companies are all in league with each other to reduce churn/competition for talent

strbean 6y ago
> Unless you're implying a set of companies are all in league with each other to reduce churn/competition for talent They have been caught doing so in the past. [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation#%22No_cold_call%22_agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
kkkiiiooo 6y ago
> Unless you're implying a set of companies are all in league with each other to reduce churn/competition for talent This is a proven reality, and has been out in the open for a long time.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  Then a few links to those proofs should be easy to produce?
  - bretpiatt 6y ago
    On this same thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24182126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24182126
    - BurningFrog 6y ago
      Yeah, I know about that one. Wondered if anything new had come to light. This was 10 years ago and involved 8 companies. Concluding from one crime that they all do it, and that's just what those people are like, you can't trust them etc, is an impulse we all do well to resist. Of course, concluding that nothing like this will ever happen again is also naive. The incentive to cooperate is certainly still there. My impression is that since the 2010 case, wages have gone up dramatically in that class of companies. There are also more big companies with owners who aren't pals from before. I think. Just guessing, relly.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pandaman 6y ago
FAANG don't really want to poach each other that much, as a sibling comment says, they had been already caught in the illegal non-poaching collusion. But even without any such collusion active they undestand that people would jump back and forth between these comapnies, ratcheting TC up every jump. What they need is that somebody who passed the interview believed it was a lucky break and would not tempt fate trying a similar interview at another company. If they considered the interview just a filter, they probably would not be so lenient with letting people to apply many times and even encouraging this.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

> why do you have to prove it for every next job Obviously, each company can't blindly trust the interviewing practices of everyone's previous employer. > Ageism - not many seniors are desperate enough or have a free time for Competitive Programming preps. In my experience, senior developers don't need anywhere near as much prep as junior developers for these interviews. Leetcode problems are difficult when you're a new college grad with zero years of programming experience. They're significantly easier after you've been programming for 10 years. > Making switching jobs harder - for every next job one has to prepare again Companies aren't going out of their way to make it harder to hire good employees into their own companies. Leetcode isn't an industry-wide conspiracy. Companies are using it because they believe it's a good filtering mechanism for candidates. When the Big N companies have higher rejection rates than Ivy League universities, they can afford to be selective. > Keep in mind that CP != CS. The problems are designed to test CS skills. How else would you suggest reorganizing the interviews to test for CS skills?

bosswipe 6y ago
I've been programming for 10 years and I'm pretty good at it, at every job I've had I get lots of praise and recognition and accelerated promotions. But I have a hard time with leetcode problems and have failed several interviews because of them. It's not that I can't learn the leetcode tricks, it's that I don't have the motivation or the time to drill for months on them so that I can retain all the tricks. I don't have a CS degree so I think that might be the difference, I didn't get to spend four years thinking about algorithms and data structures. Leetcode interviews are a form of gatekeeping that CS degree people use to filter out non-CS people.
- shloosh 6y ago
  I also don't have a CS degree, and got hired at a FAANG company. If you want to quickly get up to speed on the data science basics, check out "Cracking the Coding Interview" by Gayle Laakmann McDowell. Her YouTube videos are also useful. Certainly, there are other methods, but this is one that I found useful.
zerr 6y ago