10 ms·

I always wanted to know, how easy is it to type naïve on a common western keyboard? Do you have to press some obscure keyboard shortcut?

dylz 6y ago
"i or similar works. ^i, `i, 'i, etc. for the others.
reaperducer 6y ago
how easy is it to type naïve on a common western keyboard? In macOS, you can either use Command-u (for "umlat") followed by i, or hold down the i key for a second and press 2 to select the ï from the pop-up menu.
- masklinn 6y ago
  > Command-u option-u (aka alt-u). Generally speaking, command is for application-level or os-level commands, control is for text edition, and alt is for alternate characters (all can be shifted and command "overrides" the rest).
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    You're right, it's Option-u. Most of the key labels on my MacBook have long since been scratched away. This has happened with every single Apple keyboard I've ever used. I suspect it's my fault, since I'm a key pounder, having learned to type on an IBM Selectric typewriter.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Izkata 6y ago
On Ubuntu, I use xmodmap to turn Print Screen into a Compose key. Then it's: <compose>"i https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key
- figomore 6y ago
  I use the Macintosh keyboard map in Linux. So I do <right alt>+e to ‘, <right alt>+n to ~.
nemetroid 6y ago
On a Swedish keyboard, there's a dead key for ¨, so you press that followed by i to get ï. It's not very clear why the Swedish keyboard has that key, since ä and ö each have their own keys. The layout has other quirks as well, such as keys for §, ½ and the useless "currency sign", ¤.
- aliswe 6y ago
  Yes! I think the "mine" character should be switched for the dollar sign. BTW, the dead key could be from german, for writing their U:s.
- bjoli 6y ago
  Mac os quietly removed the paragraph sign for me when switching keyboards to non-apple ones if you used a non-standard layout that had moved the key they use to detect what kind of keyboard you are using. It wouldn't have been much of a bother, had I not used the key as my Emacs leader...
jakub_g 6y ago
I'm Windows-based and wanted a keyboard layout that will allow me typing easily Polish and French at the same time, without switching keyboard layouts (PL == US+AltGr for accents; while FR layout is insane, because apart from being AZERTY, all special chars are in different places, and you need a Shift to type numbers; and the way to type accents is also special). I found "Polish international" [1] layout which honestly can be perfect for many people. It's optimized to be compatible with regular Polish keyboard (hence with US keyboard too), and maybe not the fastest if you type a lot special chars, but it's extremely intuitive: ï = AltGr+:, i ü = AltGr+:, u é = AltGr+/, e è = AltGr+\, e (since it's extremely common, also aliased as AltGr+w) If you're Windows based and want US-compatible keyboard layout that allows easily typing any special chars, I highly recommend it. [1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Frobinski.org%2Fpolski-miedzynarodowy%2Fjak-korzystac%2F https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&u=https%3...
- 205guy 6y ago
  I type English and French in Windows on the same QWERTY keyboard. I once learned to type on Azerty, but I mainly type English now on a standard US keyboard layout. For the French, I find the windows alt-numbers works the easiest for accented characters. Alt-130=é, Alt-133=à, Alt-135=ç, Alt-137=ê, Alt-138=è which covers 95% of the accented character usage. I have a little chart next to my desk with all the others (ï,ô,ù) they’re nearly all Alt-14x and Alt-15x. And then I’ll put é in the paste buffer because it is the most used and a bit quicker that way (for words like “préféré”). The Alt-13x codes are not as quick as the Azerty keys, but good enough and once memorized are fairly easy with a keyboard that has a keypad (most PCs do, even my laptop). This is especially true because they are done with both hands simultaneously, as opposed to something like Cmd-e+e on a Mac. Actually, they are faster than finding the accented characters on my QWERTY virtual keyboard as I type this comment on iOS. Those AltGr- combos seem complicated to me, I would much prefer a system such as AltGr-e =é, then AltGr-ee=è, AltGr-eee=ê, etc. To me that would be more intuitive than remembering the composing character (slash for aigüe, etc).
  - jakub_g 6y ago
    Reminds me of when the 'D' key broke in my physical keyboard long time ago. I liked that keyboard a lot and couldn't find a good replacement so I learnt to type Alt-100 do get 'd'.
fnord123 6y ago
It is acceptable to write English without diacritics. "Naive" is accepted.
- skissane 6y ago
  It is certainly acceptable, although some publications have diacritics as part of their house style, and if the author doesn't use them, the copy editor is supposed to insert them. The New Yorker writing things like coöperate and reëlect is probably the most infamous, although they are not the only ones. The Guardian style guide says to use spellings exposé, lamé, résumé, and roué – but not café. Although, when giving the name of an organisation/institution (restaurants and cafés included), the article should use whatever spelling is preferred by the management, including their choice about how to spell cafe/café (when that word is part of their name). Personally, I'd always write café in formal English, because cafe just looks wrong to me. However, in something informal like a text message I probably wouldn't bother.
  - fnord123 6y ago
    Sure, some publications might like that. And some publications still treat data as a plural of datum rather than a mass noun like water. But I don't think I know a native speaker who would look at "naive" and feel the way they do when thy see "could of". FWIW, Economist explicitly names Naive as one to use without diacritic: https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/store/Style_Guide_2015.pdf https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/store/S...
madeofpalk 6y ago
By default on a Mac you just hold down the key to get different options, similar to on an iPhone (and a presume touch-Android). https://i.imgur.com/yuG063t.png https://i.imgur.com/yuG063t.png
boring_twenties 6y ago
On any Unix, just enable the "compose" key, then <Compose>+"+i. It's always something easy to remember, like " for umlauts, o for circles (©, ®), obviously ' for accents (ń) and so on.
- loa_in_ 6y ago
  You can see and modify the .XCompose file, and you can even put your own strings there like an email address or change the sequence. There are some community XCompose files on GitHub too.
  - account42 6y ago
    You may or may not need to set GTK_IM_MODULE=xim to get GTK applications to use ~/.XCompose. Also, Qt5 broke support for multi-character results when using compose sequences (everything after the first character is ignored).
el-salvador 6y ago
You can set up your keyboard as US International. And then type [“] + [i]. It’s a very useful keyboard layout because the punctuation characters match the keyboard ana allows you to type English, Spanish, French, Dutch, German, Swedish, Norwiegan, Portuguese
- account42 6y ago
  Having punctuation keys as dead keys is too annoying so I use my own keyboard that has dead keys only when used with AltGr as well as some direct AltGr umlauts (ie AltGr+a=ä).
flyinghamster 6y ago
On both Windows and Linux, I've liked the "US international" keyboard layout as an alternate when I need to type letters with diacritical marks. In that layout, " ' ~ ` ^ are all dead keys, which modify the next letter typed. In addition, the right Alt key (usually Alt Gr on non-US keyboards) can be used to quickly type some commonly-used letters. On Linux there is also a "US alternate international" layout with some extra dead keys to make it easier to do things like š or ž (Ctrl-RightAlt-< followed by s or z, respectively).

dylz 6y ago

"i or similar works. ^i, `i, 'i, etc. for the others.

reaperducer 6y ago

how easy is it to type naïve on a common western keyboard? In macOS, you can either use Command-u (for "umlat") followed by i, or hold down the i key for a second and press 2 to select the ï from the pop-up menu.

masklinn 6y ago
> Command-u option-u (aka alt-u). Generally speaking, command is for application-level or os-level commands, control is for text edition, and alt is for alternate characters (all can be shifted and command "overrides" the rest).
- reaperducer 6y ago
  You're right, it's Option-u. Most of the key labels on my MacBook have long since been scratched away. This has happened with every single Apple keyboard I've ever used. I suspect it's my fault, since I'm a key pounder, having learned to type on an IBM Selectric typewriter.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Izkata 6y ago

On Ubuntu, I use xmodmap to turn Print Screen into a Compose key. Then it's: <compose>"i https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key

figomore 6y ago
I use the Macintosh keyboard map in Linux. So I do <right alt>+e to ‘, <right alt>+n to ~.

nemetroid 6y ago

On a Swedish keyboard, there's a dead key for ¨, so you press that followed by i to get ï. It's not very clear why the Swedish keyboard has that key, since ä and ö each have their own keys. The layout has other quirks as well, such as keys for §, ½ and the useless "currency sign", ¤.

aliswe 6y ago
Yes! I think the "mine" character should be switched for the dollar sign. BTW, the dead key could be from german, for writing their U:s.
bjoli 6y ago
Mac os quietly removed the paragraph sign for me when switching keyboards to non-apple ones if you used a non-standard layout that had moved the key they use to detect what kind of keyboard you are using. It wouldn't have been much of a bother, had I not used the key as my Emacs leader...

jakub_g 6y ago

I'm Windows-based and wanted a keyboard layout that will allow me typing easily Polish and French at the same time, without switching keyboard layouts (PL == US+AltGr for accents; while FR layout is insane, because apart from being AZERTY, all special chars are in different places, and you need a Shift to type numbers; and the way to type accents is also special). I found "Polish international" [1] layout which honestly can be perfect for many people. It's optimized to be compatible with regular Polish keyboard (hence with US keyboard too), and maybe not the fastest if you type a lot special chars, but it's extremely intuitive: ï = AltGr+:, i ü = AltGr+:, u é = AltGr+/, e è = AltGr+\, e (since it's extremely common, also aliased as AltGr+w) If you're Windows based and want US-compatible keyboard layout that allows easily typing any special chars, I highly recommend it. [1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Frobinski.org%2Fpolski-miedzynarodowy%2Fjak-korzystac%2F https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&u=https%3...

205guy 6y ago
I type English and French in Windows on the same QWERTY keyboard. I once learned to type on Azerty, but I mainly type English now on a standard US keyboard layout. For the French, I find the windows alt-numbers works the easiest for accented characters. Alt-130=é, Alt-133=à, Alt-135=ç, Alt-137=ê, Alt-138=è which covers 95% of the accented character usage. I have a little chart next to my desk with all the others (ï,ô,ù) they’re nearly all Alt-14x and Alt-15x. And then I’ll put é in the paste buffer because it is the most used and a bit quicker that way (for words like “préféré”). The Alt-13x codes are not as quick as the Azerty keys, but good enough and once memorized are fairly easy with a keyboard that has a keypad (most PCs do, even my laptop). This is especially true because they are done with both hands simultaneously, as opposed to something like Cmd-e+e on a Mac. Actually, they are faster than finding the accented characters on my QWERTY virtual keyboard as I type this comment on iOS. Those AltGr- combos seem complicated to me, I would much prefer a system such as AltGr-e =é, then AltGr-ee=è, AltGr-eee=ê, etc. To me that would be more intuitive than remembering the composing character (slash for aigüe, etc).
- jakub_g 6y ago
  Reminds me of when the 'D' key broke in my physical keyboard long time ago. I liked that keyboard a lot and couldn't find a good replacement so I learnt to type Alt-100 do get 'd'.

fnord123 6y ago

It is acceptable to write English without diacritics. "Naive" is accepted.

skissane 6y ago
It is certainly acceptable, although some publications have diacritics as part of their house style, and if the author doesn't use them, the copy editor is supposed to insert them. The New Yorker writing things like coöperate and reëlect is probably the most infamous, although they are not the only ones. The Guardian style guide says to use spellings exposé, lamé, résumé, and roué – but not café. Although, when giving the name of an organisation/institution (restaurants and cafés included), the article should use whatever spelling is preferred by the management, including their choice about how to spell cafe/café (when that word is part of their name). Personally, I'd always write café in formal English, because cafe just looks wrong to me. However, in something informal like a text message I probably wouldn't bother.
- fnord123 6y ago
  Sure, some publications might like that. And some publications still treat data as a plural of datum rather than a mass noun like water. But I don't think I know a native speaker who would look at "naive" and feel the way they do when thy see "could of". FWIW, Economist explicitly names Naive as one to use without diacritic: https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/store/Style_Guide_2015.pdf https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/store/S...

madeofpalk 6y ago

By default on a Mac you just hold down the key to get different options, similar to on an iPhone (and a presume touch-Android). https://i.imgur.com/yuG063t.png https://i.imgur.com/yuG063t.png

boring_twenties 6y ago

On any Unix, just enable the "compose" key, then <Compose>+"+i. It's always something easy to remember, like " for umlauts, o for circles (©, ®), obviously ' for accents (ń) and so on.

loa_in_ 6y ago
You can see and modify the .XCompose file, and you can even put your own strings there like an email address or change the sequence. There are some community XCompose files on GitHub too.
- account42 6y ago
  You may or may not need to set GTK_IM_MODULE=xim to get GTK applications to use ~/.XCompose. Also, Qt5 broke support for multi-character results when using compose sequences (everything after the first character is ignored).

el-salvador 6y ago

You can set up your keyboard as US International. And then type [“] + [i]. It’s a very useful keyboard layout because the punctuation characters match the keyboard ana allows you to type English, Spanish, French, Dutch, German, Swedish, Norwiegan, Portuguese

account42 6y ago
Having punctuation keys as dead keys is too annoying so I use my own keyboard that has dead keys only when used with AltGr as well as some direct AltGr umlauts (ie AltGr+a=ä).

flyinghamster 6y ago

On both Windows and Linux, I've liked the "US international" keyboard layout as an alternate when I need to type letters with diacritical marks. In that layout, " ' ~ ` ^ are all dead keys, which modify the next letter typed. In addition, the right Alt key (usually Alt Gr on non-US keyboards) can be used to quickly type some commonly-used letters. On Linux there is also a "US alternate international" layout with some extra dead keys to make it easier to do things like š or ž (Ctrl-RightAlt-< followed by s or z, respectively).