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I think you underestimate the density of restaurants and cuisines available. No suburb I have encountered gets close to matching this situation. Suburbs also ty

I think you underestimate the density of restaurants and cuisines available. No suburb I have encountered gets close to matching this situation. Suburbs also typically require cars, something I don't own and never want to own. I don't want a backyard either as that just means another thing to maintain against entropy! All of this to say, it depends on what you value :)

mrgordon 6y ago
Yeah I’m not sure why people don’t get that walking past the climbing gym, a hundred varied restaurants, and a wide assortment of local shops on the way home is different than driving 20 minutes to go eat or go to the gym. My complaint about all these articles is prices have barely changed in NY and SF but they all like to proclaim some huge shift. Every time I check to see if there really are major discounts and I’m disappointed.
- Nursie 6y ago
  I think people get it, but they also get that in lockdown these benefits disappear. There was an interesting article in the guardian newspaper early in the UK lockdown that looked at the implicit social contract in city life - I may live in a small apartment, perhaps even sharing it with several others, but that is less important when the city is outside my door, it's just somewhere to sleep. If the city effectively ceases to be outside your door for weeks or months, you may decide that having a bigger place of your own with your own outdoor space is actually a pretty good prospect. And that thought may not go away even when things open up again.
  - adjkant 6y ago
    > If the city effectively ceases to be outside your door for weeks or months I think the key here is that even in the pandemic, while things have adapted and taken a different form, this isn't true. We lost some things, but solutions have popped up. Due to outdoor dining, in many ways the streets in my area have become more pedestrian friendly. Many blocks are actually now shut down to cars and are designated explicitly for pedestrians.
    - Nursie 6y ago
      Early in the lockdown here in the UK, it certainly was the case - there was no dining anywhere for several weeks. It's back, and pretty vibrant, in the small city I live in now. But that social contract in a small city is different anyway - even pretty near the centre I have a good sized house and some outdoor space of my own.
- adjkant 6y ago
  > My complaint about all these articles is prices have barely changed in NY and SF but they all like to proclaim some huge shift. Every time I check to see if there really are major discounts and I’m disappointed. From my searching in NYC prices, it seems like this is happening not in average prices but in the bottom of the market, and within specific neighborhoods. West Village prices aren't going to drop, but some places like say Astoria, Gowanus, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, and the like are going to have more decent places hit some record lows. I recently found a place 5 blocks from me that was 1.2K cheaper a month. Yes, it lacked some amenities and the location is worse, but that type of gap would have never existed pre-pandemic. I know someone who explicitly moved into my neighborhood off of one of these deals, and without it they would have been in a much cheaper neighborhood. I suspect that type of movement is going to have ripple effects into outer borough pricing which could then make cheaper space. I think we also are still not done seeing the shoe fall. These moves take time, even if already planned. The sublet market is going to shit in most cities on the seller side, which won't be reflected until those leases end. West Village prices might not fall in 2020, but they may in 2021. As time goes on with this pandemic, we also have to factor in that stagnation can also effectively be a drop.
  - mrgordon 6y ago
    Good points. And interesting you see it on the lower end, since I think the conventional wisdom is the high end might crash first. I personally do think because of the eviction moratorium that we will see bigger decreases to come, but I also think it will rebound hard in main areas as you say because everyone always wants to be in the Village
- fragmede 6y ago
  An $1,000 drop from $4,000/mo to $3,000/mo is a big change. The unfortunate reality, however, is $3,000 is just as unaffordable as $4,000 for many. It's still got a very long way to fall before we see $300/mo bedrooms.
01100011 6y ago
My gym is 2 blocks away. Within 2 blocks I have about 10 restaurants. I also don't have to walk over syringes or navigate homeless camps. I think you're stereotyping non-urban environments.
- adjkant 6y ago
  > I also don't have to walk over syringes or navigate homeless camps. That stereotyping goes both ways, as this is nothing like my walk to my gym. > My gym is 2 blocks away. Within 2 blocks I have about 10 restaurants. Does that density hold for the 30 minute walk radius from your dwelling in all directions? There's a big difference between living in the "main street" area of a suburban area and that type of environment.
  - 01100011 6y ago
    Yes because I live in the suburbs, not the country. I'm talking about urbia vs non-urbia, not civilization vs the countryside.
    - adjkant 6y ago
      Most suburbs don't have what you describe at all, I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive. I grew up in the suburbs myself, one with 250K people (arguably a small city), and it had nothing close to that density outside of the main street and waterfront area that accounted for maybe 10 blocks. Your claims just don't track.
- ci5er 6y ago
  I used to! The dry-cleaner shut down as did 8/10 restaurants (This is in Northern Austin). All the chains stayed open, so I guess that is something?

mrgordon 6y ago

Yeah I’m not sure why people don’t get that walking past the climbing gym, a hundred varied restaurants, and a wide assortment of local shops on the way home is different than driving 20 minutes to go eat or go to the gym. My complaint about all these articles is prices have barely changed in NY and SF but they all like to proclaim some huge shift. Every time I check to see if there really are major discounts and I’m disappointed.

Nursie 6y ago
I think people get it, but they also get that in lockdown these benefits disappear. There was an interesting article in the guardian newspaper early in the UK lockdown that looked at the implicit social contract in city life - I may live in a small apartment, perhaps even sharing it with several others, but that is less important when the city is outside my door, it's just somewhere to sleep. If the city effectively ceases to be outside your door for weeks or months, you may decide that having a bigger place of your own with your own outdoor space is actually a pretty good prospect. And that thought may not go away even when things open up again.
- adjkant 6y ago
  > If the city effectively ceases to be outside your door for weeks or months I think the key here is that even in the pandemic, while things have adapted and taken a different form, this isn't true. We lost some things, but solutions have popped up. Due to outdoor dining, in many ways the streets in my area have become more pedestrian friendly. Many blocks are actually now shut down to cars and are designated explicitly for pedestrians.
  - Nursie 6y ago
    Early in the lockdown here in the UK, it certainly was the case - there was no dining anywhere for several weeks. It's back, and pretty vibrant, in the small city I live in now. But that social contract in a small city is different anyway - even pretty near the centre I have a good sized house and some outdoor space of my own.
adjkant 6y ago
> My complaint about all these articles is prices have barely changed in NY and SF but they all like to proclaim some huge shift. Every time I check to see if there really are major discounts and I’m disappointed. From my searching in NYC prices, it seems like this is happening not in average prices but in the bottom of the market, and within specific neighborhoods. West Village prices aren't going to drop, but some places like say Astoria, Gowanus, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, and the like are going to have more decent places hit some record lows. I recently found a place 5 blocks from me that was 1.2K cheaper a month. Yes, it lacked some amenities and the location is worse, but that type of gap would have never existed pre-pandemic. I know someone who explicitly moved into my neighborhood off of one of these deals, and without it they would have been in a much cheaper neighborhood. I suspect that type of movement is going to have ripple effects into outer borough pricing which could then make cheaper space. I think we also are still not done seeing the shoe fall. These moves take time, even if already planned. The sublet market is going to shit in most cities on the seller side, which won't be reflected until those leases end. West Village prices might not fall in 2020, but they may in 2021. As time goes on with this pandemic, we also have to factor in that stagnation can also effectively be a drop.
- mrgordon 6y ago
  Good points. And interesting you see it on the lower end, since I think the conventional wisdom is the high end might crash first. I personally do think because of the eviction moratorium that we will see bigger decreases to come, but I also think it will rebound hard in main areas as you say because everyone always wants to be in the Village
fragmede 6y ago
An $1,000 drop from $4,000/mo to $3,000/mo is a big change. The unfortunate reality, however, is $3,000 is just as unaffordable as $4,000 for many. It's still got a very long way to fall before we see $300/mo bedrooms.

01100011 6y ago

My gym is 2 blocks away. Within 2 blocks I have about 10 restaurants. I also don't have to walk over syringes or navigate homeless camps. I think you're stereotyping non-urban environments.

adjkant 6y ago
> I also don't have to walk over syringes or navigate homeless camps. That stereotyping goes both ways, as this is nothing like my walk to my gym. > My gym is 2 blocks away. Within 2 blocks I have about 10 restaurants. Does that density hold for the 30 minute walk radius from your dwelling in all directions? There's a big difference between living in the "main street" area of a suburban area and that type of environment.
- 01100011 6y ago
  Yes because I live in the suburbs, not the country. I'm talking about urbia vs non-urbia, not civilization vs the countryside.
  - adjkant 6y ago
    Most suburbs don't have what you describe at all, I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive. I grew up in the suburbs myself, one with 250K people (arguably a small city), and it had nothing close to that density outside of the main street and waterfront area that accounted for maybe 10 blocks. Your claims just don't track.
ci5er 6y ago
I used to! The dry-cleaner shut down as did 8/10 restaurants (This is in Northern Austin). All the chains stayed open, so I guess that is something?