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Here's a quick reference: 1) Are you on AWS? Then you don't need Kubernetes. Use Fargate. 2) Are you on Google Cloud? Then you don't need Kubernetes. Use Clou

Here's a quick reference: 1) Are you on AWS? Then you don't need Kubernetes. Use Fargate. 2) Are you on Google Cloud? Then you don't need Kubernetes. Use Cloud Run. 3) Are you on Azure? Then you don't need Kubernetes. Use Azure Container Instances. 4) Are you on a PaaS like Heroku? Then you don't need Kubernetes. 5) Are you on a random VPC provider / bare metal machines? You could probably still do without Kubernetes using Docker Swarm (apparently it's not dead!), Nomad, Mesos DC/OS, or a standard Linux box and systemd (or some other process or cluster scheduler). 6) Do you need to solve the bin-packing problem? Do you need to self-host a service mesh of microservices in multiple colocated regions? Do you need a fully automated redundant fault-tolerant network of disposable nodes to constantly reschedule different versions of applications with stringent RBACs, scheduled tasks, dynamic resource allocation, and do you have about a million dollars to spend on building and maintaining it all? Then you need Kubernetes.

jrott 6y ago
I get that feeling however I know for fargate there are some vertical scaling limitations that don't exist with kubernetes. Also at this point there is a ton of stuff out there that assumes you are deploying to kubernetes and makes that the path of least resistance.
- otterley 6y ago
  > I know for fargate there are some vertical scaling limitations that don't exist with kubernetes To overcome those limitations, you can use EC2 Container Instances with ECS. And instance auto scaling can now be automated for you via ECS Capacity Providers.
lazyant 6y ago
You may want to qualify these absolutes, as in "you may not need k8s, consider blah". For ex I run on k8s and can't use Fargate, same for GCP and Azure.
halbritt 6y ago
> do you have about a million dollars to spend on building and maintaining it all? Then you need Kubernetes. I think you're overstating the investment necessary to overcome the initial complication of Kubernetes and also understating the benefit of being on a platform with a massive and thriving community behind it. As an example, in a prior role, there were a set of data engineers that would receive data in the form of MS SQL server backups from which these engineers would need to query and transform data on an exploratory rather than production basis. Certainly one could use an "undifferentiated" service from a cloud provider, but it was also a roughly 5-minute process for me to use the rather high quality helm chart and docker image commonly available to stand up a new service for the benefit of each engineer that had the need. The process of creating that automation necessary to deploy the helm chart and restore the backups took approximately one hour and could be repeated ad nauseum in the aforementioned 5-minute time period. There are many, many other examples of this. Want a data-science platform complete out of the box with no vendor lock-in, how about data8.org? The list goes on.
- peterwwillis 6y ago
  What happens when your car's A/C stops working? Most people think, I'll just get a little can of R134a, fill up the system, and it'll be good as new. Somebody said they did that once and it worked just fine, so it should work for you too, right? I mean, it says so right on the can, and there's YouTube videos of it and everything. The trouble is, A/C is a complex system. There are moving pieces with specialized oils that oxidize and break down over time. There's a sealed system of pressurized gas. There's a pump, clutch, coils, fans, filter, thermostat, drain, belt, and electronics, Any of those parts could fail in a number of ways. Just to inspect it you need a custom gauge set, a tank of R134a, and a vacuum pump. Etcd is about as complex as an A/C system. That is one of a dozen components of a Kubernetes system, before we get into custom integrations, which you will need about another dozen of. The million dollars is to pay for everything needed to set up and maintain all of that, create the custom integrations that do not come turn-key from the community, create the custom integrations the community doesn't even have, integrate it with your development and deployment systems, business requirements, application-specific needs, and so on. A million is an average. You can get away with less, just like you can get away with pumping a pre-pressurized A/C system with extra coolant: if you're lucky it won't break. When it does, I hope you have either a lot of time, or a lot of money to pay a consultant.
aliswe 6y ago
OK, saying that Azure CI is a substitute to Kubernetes is very misleading. Sorry if this is misrepresenting what you're saying, but basically I see this as saying you don't need k8s, just use Docker without k8s.
watermelon0 6y ago
So you are replacing one orchestration (Kubernetes) with another (e.g. Fargate + ECS on AWS)?
leafboi 6y ago
I have devops engineers who need something to do otherwise they'll quit and move on to other companies that are working with kubernetes. I think ^^^ the above is the main thing driving adoption. It's a real social engineering problem. Many engineers like to work with the latest and greatest.

jrott 6y ago

I get that feeling however I know for fargate there are some vertical scaling limitations that don't exist with kubernetes. Also at this point there is a ton of stuff out there that assumes you are deploying to kubernetes and makes that the path of least resistance.

otterley 6y ago
> I know for fargate there are some vertical scaling limitations that don't exist with kubernetes To overcome those limitations, you can use EC2 Container Instances with ECS. And instance auto scaling can now be automated for you via ECS Capacity Providers.

lazyant 6y ago

You may want to qualify these absolutes, as in "you may not need k8s, consider blah". For ex I run on k8s and can't use Fargate, same for GCP and Azure.

halbritt 6y ago

> do you have about a million dollars to spend on building and maintaining it all? Then you need Kubernetes. I think you're overstating the investment necessary to overcome the initial complication of Kubernetes and also understating the benefit of being on a platform with a massive and thriving community behind it. As an example, in a prior role, there were a set of data engineers that would receive data in the form of MS SQL server backups from which these engineers would need to query and transform data on an exploratory rather than production basis. Certainly one could use an "undifferentiated" service from a cloud provider, but it was also a roughly 5-minute process for me to use the rather high quality helm chart and docker image commonly available to stand up a new service for the benefit of each engineer that had the need. The process of creating that automation necessary to deploy the helm chart and restore the backups took approximately one hour and could be repeated ad nauseum in the aforementioned 5-minute time period. There are many, many other examples of this. Want a data-science platform complete out of the box with no vendor lock-in, how about data8.org? The list goes on.

peterwwillis 6y ago
What happens when your car's A/C stops working? Most people think, I'll just get a little can of R134a, fill up the system, and it'll be good as new. Somebody said they did that once and it worked just fine, so it should work for you too, right? I mean, it says so right on the can, and there's YouTube videos of it and everything. The trouble is, A/C is a complex system. There are moving pieces with specialized oils that oxidize and break down over time. There's a sealed system of pressurized gas. There's a pump, clutch, coils, fans, filter, thermostat, drain, belt, and electronics, Any of those parts could fail in a number of ways. Just to inspect it you need a custom gauge set, a tank of R134a, and a vacuum pump. Etcd is about as complex as an A/C system. That is one of a dozen components of a Kubernetes system, before we get into custom integrations, which you will need about another dozen of. The million dollars is to pay for everything needed to set up and maintain all of that, create the custom integrations that do not come turn-key from the community, create the custom integrations the community doesn't even have, integrate it with your development and deployment systems, business requirements, application-specific needs, and so on. A million is an average. You can get away with less, just like you can get away with pumping a pre-pressurized A/C system with extra coolant: if you're lucky it won't break. When it does, I hope you have either a lot of time, or a lot of money to pay a consultant.

aliswe 6y ago

OK, saying that Azure CI is a substitute to Kubernetes is very misleading. Sorry if this is misrepresenting what you're saying, but basically I see this as saying you don't need k8s, just use Docker without k8s.

watermelon0 6y ago

So you are replacing one orchestration (Kubernetes) with another (e.g. Fargate + ECS on AWS)?

leafboi 6y ago

I have devops engineers who need something to do otherwise they'll quit and move on to other companies that are working with kubernetes. I think ^^^ the above is the main thing driving adoption. It's a real social engineering problem. Many engineers like to work with the latest and greatest.