5 ms·

Can someone answer my genuine question on this topic? At my high school in California I knew a trans girl (m to f used she/her) that was super chill and maybe a

Can someone answer my genuine question on this topic? At my high school in California I knew a trans girl (m to f used she/her) that was super chill and maybe a bit on the spectrum. At the same time there were a couple dozen girls that called themselves trans and asked everyone to use they/them but acted and dressed all 100% within female stereotypes (not that trans is about stereotypes I’m just illustrating my point). I didn’t know any boys that did this. Has the term trans grown beyond just (for lack of a better term) those with body dysmorphia? What is this second category of trans because I have yet to figure it out.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
briefly, expecting a trans person to have dysmorphia is called "transmedicalism." it's highly controversial in the trans community because on the one side you have people who suffer from gender dysmorphia who don't always like the idea that other people are transitioning because of a preference; on the other side you have people advocate that gender identity is a personal choice and should not be subject to a particular diagnosis by a professional.
- sascha_sl 6y ago
  Two big factors go into not liking transmedicalism * it usually relies on very narrow definitions of gender dysphoria. The relation between gender dysphoria and gender euphoria for instance is often discarded. Gender dysphoria itself is poorly defined and often does not specifically manifest as gender-related until the idea is confronted. Lots of trans people suppressed for years or sometimes decades because they thought their pain was not specific enough to not be rejected by gatekeeping. * it does not account for people that feel more comfortable outside the gender binary, no matter if they want to medically transition (some do). Transmeds and "truscum" often require strict adherence to binary gender norms, in alignment to historical guidelines where doing anything not absolutely in alignment with your binary gender would set you back significantly.
wittyreference 6y ago
> Has the term trans grown beyond just (for lack of a better term) those with body dysmorphia? As far as I am aware, no. But bear in mind that there’s not always an abrupt transition between gender-associated behavior, due to social circumstances beyond personal preference. High School, a setting which implies an age where parental figures retain overwhelming leverage over minors’ lives, is a fairly good example. E.g. clothing choices at home are open to parental scrutiny, whereas pronoun use at school is not. Beyond that, though, like any term that is applied at one’s own volition and in response to subjective internal cues, there is going to be some variation in the folks identifying that way. Not in a “liar” sort of way, just in a “there’s no precise cut-off on what behaviors or feelings constitute trans” kind of way. Especially as social stigma decreases or, depending on one’s precise social micro-environment, possibly even turns into a form of social prestige. Again, without any deceit intended, you can imagine that someone that feels they fall in a gray area and needs to explore their identity may verbalize (or even conceptualize) that feeling differently based on the quality and magnitude of social connotation.
alicemaz 6y ago
this has been a contentious argument for at least half a decade that I've seen, and I won't rehash it here, but the magic words to google if you want to read more are "truscum" and "theyfab"
pgcj_poster 6y ago
Trans people generally have gender dsyphoria, a different condition from body dysmorphia, which they usually don't have. The actual diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria in adults and adolescents given by the DSM-5 are quite broad, and would include anyone who exhibits "A strong desire to be of […and…] be treated as a gender other than one's assigned gender" for at least six months. It also explicitly states that gender they identify as does not have to be the one opposite their birth sex. It can be neither i.e. non-binary. By the diagnostic criteria, those non-binary students you were talking about may well have had gender dysphoria... it might have extended to discomfort with their bodies too: Did you ask any of them? Dress and presentation doesn't necessarily mean that much, especially among teenagers who are still figuring things out and might not be ready to change everything. I knew a teenage trans boy who had long, pink hair. I also knew an adult trans man with a beard who still liked to wear dresses sometimes. Being trans doesn't just mean escaping from one cage that's colored pink into another one that's colored blue. I think it's more common for teenagers who were assigned female at birth to publicly identify as non-binary because most cis people unfortunately just perceive it as meaning "quirky tomboy," which is more socially acceptable than the transfeminine equivalent, "weird f * * ." I'm a trans woman, but I thought I was non-binary for about a year while I was in high school. I was sure as hell too scared to tell anyone that, though. I ended up determining that I was the gender opposite the one I was assigned at birth. Some teens who identify as non-binary will probably end up identifying as their assigned gender. Others will continue to identify as non-binary: Kate Bornstein is non-binary and in their 70s. I think it's good that people get the space to explore their identity, even if a few end up having been attracted to a label for the wrong reasons. Regarding the expanding definition of trans, in the past, trans people had to fall squarely within the norms for the gender they were transitioning to, or else they couldn't usually get treatment. For instance, Harry Benjamin, who was one of the early doctors who performed sexual reassignment surgery in the US, classified trans women into six groups, only two of which he labelled "True Transsexual" and approved for surgery. For a trans woman, you had to be attracted to men, be conventionally feminine, have believed you were a girl from an early age, etc. Most of the trans community is glad that we've moved past this, but there's a minority that wants to bring back the stricter standards. They're called "transmedicalists" or sometimes "truscum" and and can often be identified by conspicuously using the word "transsexual" rather than "transgender" in 2020 (although some people use it for more benign reasons). They often say things like "we just think you need to have dysphoria to be trans." However, as noted, the clinical definition of gender dysphoria includes just about anyone who self-identifies as trans, and the actual argument is whether you have to be a binary gender, have meet the typical norms for that gender, and have to want to pursue all the medical options for transitioning to that gender. There's no agreed-upon word for trans people who don't meet the arbitrary standards required of a "true transsexual," but some transmedicalists call them "tucutes." Others call them "transgender" and call anyone they thing is really trans "transsexual." To be clear, though, speaking this way is very offensive to most trans people and you should never do it.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago

briefly, expecting a trans person to have dysmorphia is called "transmedicalism." it's highly controversial in the trans community because on the one side you have people who suffer from gender dysmorphia who don't always like the idea that other people are transitioning because of a preference; on the other side you have people advocate that gender identity is a personal choice and should not be subject to a particular diagnosis by a professional.

sascha_sl 6y ago
Two big factors go into not liking transmedicalism * it usually relies on very narrow definitions of gender dysphoria. The relation between gender dysphoria and gender euphoria for instance is often discarded. Gender dysphoria itself is poorly defined and often does not specifically manifest as gender-related until the idea is confronted. Lots of trans people suppressed for years or sometimes decades because they thought their pain was not specific enough to not be rejected by gatekeeping. * it does not account for people that feel more comfortable outside the gender binary, no matter if they want to medically transition (some do). Transmeds and "truscum" often require strict adherence to binary gender norms, in alignment to historical guidelines where doing anything not absolutely in alignment with your binary gender would set you back significantly.

wittyreference 6y ago

> Has the term trans grown beyond just (for lack of a better term) those with body dysmorphia? As far as I am aware, no. But bear in mind that there’s not always an abrupt transition between gender-associated behavior, due to social circumstances beyond personal preference. High School, a setting which implies an age where parental figures retain overwhelming leverage over minors’ lives, is a fairly good example. E.g. clothing choices at home are open to parental scrutiny, whereas pronoun use at school is not. Beyond that, though, like any term that is applied at one’s own volition and in response to subjective internal cues, there is going to be some variation in the folks identifying that way. Not in a “liar” sort of way, just in a “there’s no precise cut-off on what behaviors or feelings constitute trans” kind of way. Especially as social stigma decreases or, depending on one’s precise social micro-environment, possibly even turns into a form of social prestige. Again, without any deceit intended, you can imagine that someone that feels they fall in a gray area and needs to explore their identity may verbalize (or even conceptualize) that feeling differently based on the quality and magnitude of social connotation.

alicemaz 6y ago

this has been a contentious argument for at least half a decade that I've seen, and I won't rehash it here, but the magic words to google if you want to read more are "truscum" and "theyfab"

pgcj_poster 6y ago

Trans people generally have gender dsyphoria, a different condition from body dysmorphia, which they usually don't have. The actual diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria in adults and adolescents given by the DSM-5 are quite broad, and would include anyone who exhibits "A strong desire to be of […and…] be treated as a gender other than one's assigned gender" for at least six months. It also explicitly states that gender they identify as does not have to be the one opposite their birth sex. It can be neither i.e. non-binary. By the diagnostic criteria, those non-binary students you were talking about may well have had gender dysphoria... it might have extended to discomfort with their bodies too: Did you ask any of them? Dress and presentation doesn't necessarily mean that much, especially among teenagers who are still figuring things out and might not be ready to change everything. I knew a teenage trans boy who had long, pink hair. I also knew an adult trans man with a beard who still liked to wear dresses sometimes. Being trans doesn't just mean escaping from one cage that's colored pink into another one that's colored blue. I think it's more common for teenagers who were assigned female at birth to publicly identify as non-binary because most cis people unfortunately just perceive it as meaning "quirky tomboy," which is more socially acceptable than the transfeminine equivalent, "weird f * * ." I'm a trans woman, but I thought I was non-binary for about a year while I was in high school. I was sure as hell too scared to tell anyone that, though. I ended up determining that I was the gender opposite the one I was assigned at birth. Some teens who identify as non-binary will probably end up identifying as their assigned gender. Others will continue to identify as non-binary: Kate Bornstein is non-binary and in their 70s. I think it's good that people get the space to explore their identity, even if a few end up having been attracted to a label for the wrong reasons. Regarding the expanding definition of trans, in the past, trans people had to fall squarely within the norms for the gender they were transitioning to, or else they couldn't usually get treatment. For instance, Harry Benjamin, who was one of the early doctors who performed sexual reassignment surgery in the US, classified trans women into six groups, only two of which he labelled "True Transsexual" and approved for surgery. For a trans woman, you had to be attracted to men, be conventionally feminine, have believed you were a girl from an early age, etc. Most of the trans community is glad that we've moved past this, but there's a minority that wants to bring back the stricter standards. They're called "transmedicalists" or sometimes "truscum" and and can often be identified by conspicuously using the word "transsexual" rather than "transgender" in 2020 (although some people use it for more benign reasons). They often say things like "we just think you need to have dysphoria to be trans." However, as noted, the clinical definition of gender dysphoria includes just about anyone who self-identifies as trans, and the actual argument is whether you have to be a binary gender, have meet the typical norms for that gender, and have to want to pursue all the medical options for transitioning to that gender. There's no agreed-upon word for trans people who don't meet the arbitrary standards required of a "true transsexual," but some transmedicalists call them "tucutes." Others call them "transgender" and call anyone they thing is really trans "transsexual." To be clear, though, speaking this way is very offensive to most trans people and you should never do it.