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Don't forget that Amazon dominates a lot more than just retail on the internet. With AWS they effectively run large portions of it as well.

thdrdt 6y ago
Don't underestimate how Google is becomming the storefront of all retail on internet. Google can now dictate which webshop is shown first in search results on a product level. I know retailers are sick of this. They need Google to be found on the web but they don't like how Google is destroying retail.
- threatofrain 6y ago
  There isn't really a strong narrative that Google Shopping is any kind of threat to Amazon or Walmart. Nobody knows if it's going to catch momentum, or if Google will just kill in a few years.
- alangibson 6y ago
  There's a huge opportunity for Shopify to launch a slick shopping service that puts a (much nicer looking) Amazon-style interface in front of all the various shops. Combine that with Etsy's marketplace and you'd really have a contender.
  - andromeduck 6y ago
    They already do that.
    - alangibson 6y ago
      Not well. I've never seen it and I spend way too much with Amazon (meaning I'm an ideal customer).
- jdietrich 6y ago
  Independent aggregators are staging a minor comeback, thanks in part to the dismal failure of Google Shopping. I only ever buy PC components through PCPartPicker, I only buy games through IsThereAnyDeal. Third parties can offer real value in this space.
andai 6y ago
Isn't that kinda like saying that the electric companies do the same thing, though?
- alangibson 6y ago
  They kind of do, which is why alot of big tech should be highly regulated like utilities.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I feel like saying that AWS should be regulated like a utility because lots of businesses use their products is a little sill. They have heavy competition in basically all of their markets, their moat is their breadth of services and they’re constantly at risk of being unbundled by a competitor that has more time to devote to a single product segment. They have persistent natural competition with colo-ing that keeps their prices from straying too far from commodity hardware and an ops person. Like if you’re looking to regulate a market this seems like one of the last you’d peg as not being healthy.
    - huffmsa 6y ago
      There are tons of niche hosts that have sprung up recently, a lot for developing and serving AI/ML applications. Amazon was there first, but it's getting cheaper by the day to buy a bunch of hardware, stick it in an increasingly cheaply electrified building, run a bunch of fiber to it and slap some virtualization software on it.
    - alangibson 6y ago
      AWS wouldn't be my first choice to regulate, but at this point they can turn any competing business into a feature of AWS without breaking a sweat. I know for sure this stifles innovation because I've watched people abandon promising ideas because of that fact.
- leetrout 6y ago
  I’m under the impression there is more regulation because they are a utility company.
walrus01 6y ago
They run large portions of it as essentially a gargantuan hosting company, in data centers in a few fixed locations. They buy a lot of dark fiber, and IRUs, and wavelength services from carrier-of-carrier type big ISPs, but by no means do they control the internet. But they are not in the same business of long distance OSI layer 1 ISP operations as CenturyLink/level3, zayo or Verizon are. Where I would be really worried is if I saw amazon making a serious bid to acquire a company similar to Zayo, NTT, KT, France telecom/opentransit, or Telia.
- JPLeRouzic 6y ago
  It's a good time for Amazon or Google to buy a Telco, Telcos valuations have lost between 25 to 45% since the beginning of 2020 [0] I guess that a state owned company would willingly be sold by its owner because states urgently need money. For example Orange sa (ex France telecom) is owned at 25% by the French state and French state just had passed a budget which is financed at half by debt (2021). Selling a company for $b30 would provide some relief in 2021 budget. [0] https://www.infrontanalytics.com/fe-en/FR0000133308/Orange-SA/market-valuation https://www.infrontanalytics.com/fe-en/FR0000133308/Orange-S...
  - harpratap 6y ago
    There's no point in buying a Teleco today, with 5G any of the FAANGs can create one with the money they have. Infact Google, Amazon, Microsoft and Facebook have proven experience in web scale, so 5G will be right up their alley
    - JPLeRouzic 6y ago
      That's true in principle, they could buy directly at Telecom manufacturers, rent antenna space and use subcontractors to install base stations, but there are counter examples showing they are not so good at this business. For example Google has tried to provide free Wi-Fi, at the time some people were afraid it would be some rehearsal for a Wimax deployment, it never happened. 8 years ago, Google made a lot of noise with their high altitude platforms (their so called balloons). They met some Telcos, but it went nowhere. Long time ago Google had also a project to provide phone calls with interesting fees. It was a MVNO in practice but it never got traction even if Google had access to an incredible number of Android users.
acdha 6y ago
That’s different, though, in that they have significant competition and the users don’t care at all. They have a lot more ability to affect prices on retail sales.

thdrdt 6y ago

Don't underestimate how Google is becomming the storefront of all retail on internet. Google can now dictate which webshop is shown first in search results on a product level. I know retailers are sick of this. They need Google to be found on the web but they don't like how Google is destroying retail.

threatofrain 6y ago
There isn't really a strong narrative that Google Shopping is any kind of threat to Amazon or Walmart. Nobody knows if it's going to catch momentum, or if Google will just kill in a few years.
alangibson 6y ago
There's a huge opportunity for Shopify to launch a slick shopping service that puts a (much nicer looking) Amazon-style interface in front of all the various shops. Combine that with Etsy's marketplace and you'd really have a contender.
- andromeduck 6y ago
  They already do that.
  - alangibson 6y ago
    Not well. I've never seen it and I spend way too much with Amazon (meaning I'm an ideal customer).
jdietrich 6y ago
Independent aggregators are staging a minor comeback, thanks in part to the dismal failure of Google Shopping. I only ever buy PC components through PCPartPicker, I only buy games through IsThereAnyDeal. Third parties can offer real value in this space.

andai 6y ago

Isn't that kinda like saying that the electric companies do the same thing, though?

alangibson 6y ago
They kind of do, which is why alot of big tech should be highly regulated like utilities.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I feel like saying that AWS should be regulated like a utility because lots of businesses use their products is a little sill. They have heavy competition in basically all of their markets, their moat is their breadth of services and they’re constantly at risk of being unbundled by a competitor that has more time to devote to a single product segment. They have persistent natural competition with colo-ing that keeps their prices from straying too far from commodity hardware and an ops person. Like if you’re looking to regulate a market this seems like one of the last you’d peg as not being healthy.
  - huffmsa 6y ago
    There are tons of niche hosts that have sprung up recently, a lot for developing and serving AI/ML applications. Amazon was there first, but it's getting cheaper by the day to buy a bunch of hardware, stick it in an increasingly cheaply electrified building, run a bunch of fiber to it and slap some virtualization software on it.
  - alangibson 6y ago
    AWS wouldn't be my first choice to regulate, but at this point they can turn any competing business into a feature of AWS without breaking a sweat. I know for sure this stifles innovation because I've watched people abandon promising ideas because of that fact.
leetrout 6y ago
I’m under the impression there is more regulation because they are a utility company.

walrus01 6y ago

They run large portions of it as essentially a gargantuan hosting company, in data centers in a few fixed locations. They buy a lot of dark fiber, and IRUs, and wavelength services from carrier-of-carrier type big ISPs, but by no means do they control the internet. But they are not in the same business of long distance OSI layer 1 ISP operations as CenturyLink/level3, zayo or Verizon are. Where I would be really worried is if I saw amazon making a serious bid to acquire a company similar to Zayo, NTT, KT, France telecom/opentransit, or Telia.

JPLeRouzic 6y ago
It's a good time for Amazon or Google to buy a Telco, Telcos valuations have lost between 25 to 45% since the beginning of 2020 [0] I guess that a state owned company would willingly be sold by its owner because states urgently need money. For example Orange sa (ex France telecom) is owned at 25% by the French state and French state just had passed a budget which is financed at half by debt (2021). Selling a company for $b30 would provide some relief in 2021 budget. [0] https://www.infrontanalytics.com/fe-en/FR0000133308/Orange-SA/market-valuation https://www.infrontanalytics.com/fe-en/FR0000133308/Orange-S...
- harpratap 6y ago
  There's no point in buying a Teleco today, with 5G any of the FAANGs can create one with the money they have. Infact Google, Amazon, Microsoft and Facebook have proven experience in web scale, so 5G will be right up their alley
  - JPLeRouzic 6y ago
    That's true in principle, they could buy directly at Telecom manufacturers, rent antenna space and use subcontractors to install base stations, but there are counter examples showing they are not so good at this business. For example Google has tried to provide free Wi-Fi, at the time some people were afraid it would be some rehearsal for a Wimax deployment, it never happened. 8 years ago, Google made a lot of noise with their high altitude platforms (their so called balloons). They met some Telcos, but it went nowhere. Long time ago Google had also a project to provide phone calls with interesting fees. It was a MVNO in practice but it never got traction even if Google had access to an incredible number of Android users.

acdha 6y ago

That’s different, though, in that they have significant competition and the users don’t care at all. They have a lot more ability to affect prices on retail sales.