> building software reliably has been figured out by software _engineers_ This is patently untrue when it comes to security. OpenBSD is the closest thing I'm a

> building software reliably has been figured out by software _engineers_ This is patently untrue when it comes to security. OpenBSD is the closest thing I'm aware of to a "secure" widely used system, and I'm sure that OpenBSD machines are compromised every day. The day that a network exploit is treated with the same seriousness as a commercial jetliner crash is the day I'll believe software security has grown up.