6 ms·

The Strange Costumes of the Plague Doctors

85 points by BerislavLopac 6y ago

jack_pp 6y ago
Interesting that some science deniers in our modern times use scents in the form of essential oils to fend off or even treat diseases. Are there no written records testifying the effectiveness of such suits?
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  I'm sure there are, but, in a pre-scientific age, such accounts have a tendency to be rather unreliable. Where bubonic plague is primarily transmitted by flea bites, the plague doctor gear is ultimately a personal protective equipment version of the Maginot Line. But it would plausibly offer some protection against contracting pneumonic plague from getting coughed on all the time.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  The application of the scientific method to medicine is surprisingly modern (only really became standard in the late 19th century). There'll certainly be people claiming they worked, but they wouldn't have felt the need to produce evidence of this.
- saltcured 6y ago
  Many of the traditional oils do have observable effects, which is why they were selected and became traditions in the first place. They can have immediate and obvious effects on circulation, the sinuses, the bronchii, etc. Some may even have other medicinal aspects to manage inflammation. However, these observable effects are often more about managing symptoms and perception than with having any protective or curative mechanism. This is where the you run into problems. A reduction in symptoms does not necessarily correlate well with a reduction in pathogens or other disease processes, so you might have the same (or worse) outcome as without treatment, or might put yourself into risky situations with a false sense of security...
pulse7 6y ago
It's a kind of COVID-19 dress/cover, but with prolonged nose... maybe for better breathing...
speedgoose 6y ago
So much for openculture dot com when they serve a forbidden error.
nabla9 6y ago
Since covid-19 mostly transmits trough droplets (> 5 um) that are heavier than aerosols, reducing droplet speed and the dose people are exposed to could make all the difference. I wonder visor opening downwards would provide better protection for most cases and make it more comfortable to wear. That kind of prolonged nose could be designed to slow down the speed of droplets that end and exit. If they were made from hard material they would be easier to clean. (optionally you could add filter with larger volume to make it even more effective) Surgical- and cloth mask provide low protection to the wearer but give significant protection to others. But people don't wear them properly. You should trim your beard to get good protection, for example.
- xenonite 6y ago
  > "mostly transmits through droplets" I think it is too early to make such a claim. If no protection is applied (visor/mask) and no physical distancing is performed, I assume the claim might hold up. The SARS-CoV-2 aerosol route is still relevant, however. The masks are able to block this a bit while the visors are barely helpful. Hence I wouldn't say that the visors are a solution.
  - nabla9 6y ago
    The fact that masks provide protection is evidence that aerosols are not significant transmission route. Surgical and cloth masks are not relevant to aerosol question. They work trough gravity sedimentation and inertial impaction. For smaller particles you need diffusion, and electrostatic attraction. In other words N95 mask that fits well.
    - jdkrorkf 6y ago
      Pretty much all surgical masks contain a middle melt-blown layer, ie: the exact diffussion/electrostatic layer used in N95 masks.
    - azepoi 6y ago
      this is wrong. Masks provide some protection it's not all or nothing.
blackhaz 6y ago
I need this. Imagine the power of the appearance of a smoldering beak, and the stick - to prevent those people who ignore isolation from approaching! Bow to the Plague Doctors of 17th century.
- fhsm 6y ago
  > and the stick ... 2m staff
mumblemumble 6y ago
An interesting counterpoint I came across recently :https://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2020/08/01/plague-doctors-the-last-word/ https://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2020/08/01/plague-doctors-... Long story short: Most plague doctors did not dress like this. The beak masks may have existed, but the usual plague doctor headgear was something that wouldn't go over nearly so well at a cosplay meeting.
- dtech 6y ago
  To save you a click, those look like KKK uniforms
- ViViDboarder 6y ago
  Is it really a counterpoint if it’s actually one of the points made in the article?
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  That's mentioned and linked in TFA.
voidmain 6y ago
Modern particulate filters are pleated: you take a thin filter material that is effective at blocking particles but hard to get air through, and then fold a bunch of it up in a small space to increase the surface area and decrease the pressure drop required for air to flow through it. If you don't have a suitably thin material or don't have this technique, increasing the surface area by, say, making it into a big cone would probably also work. The miasma theory isn't quite right, but it could conceivably have provided a half decent rubric for designing a working particle filter: at least some unpleasant smells are carried by particles. (Burning incense inside the mask is an example of where this theory might lead you off course.)
mistersquid 6y ago
This subject is also featured in a MetaFilter front page post (FPP) titled "The 'Science' Behind the Plague Doctor Costume" on the site MetaFilter from 2015. [0] The FPP links to a Mental Floss article on the "Anatomy of 14th Century Bubonic Plague Hazmat Suits". [1] What struck and haunted me about the "science" of Bubonic plague equipment was how so very close those cultures were to understanding the transmission of many diseases (though, ironically, not Bubonic Plague) and the Germ Theory of disease itself. Quoting (in part) what I wrote then: > Daniel Defoe's _Journal of the Plague Year_ published in 1722 [2] comes just before Pasteur's experiments confirming the Germ Theory of disease and it, too, is tantalizingly close about the empirical cause of the spread of Bubonic plague. [3] Humans have come quite a ways toward understanding the science of infectious diseases, but given the many ways diseases propagate, one can't help but wonder how close we are to our 14th-century forbears when looked from the vantage of what we may know in 28th century. (That is, 14th century : 21st century :: 21st century : 28th century) [0] https://www.metafilter.com/154520/The-Science-Behind-the-Plague-Doctor-Costume https://www.metafilter.com/154520/The-Science-Behind-the-Pla... [1] http://mentalfloss.com/article/49217/anatomy-14th-century-bubonic-plague-hazmat-suits http://mentalfloss.com/article/49217/anatomy-14th-century-bu... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journal_of_the_Plague_Year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journal_of_the_Plague_Year [3] https://www.metafilter.com/154520/The-Science-Behind-the-Plague-Doctor-Costume#6277119 https://www.metafilter.com/154520/The-Science-Behind-the-Pla...
nanomonkey 6y ago
I feel like this is going to be the go to Halloween costume of the year.
- DannyB2 6y ago
  "Medieval Plague Doctor Mask & Costume" https://www.instructables.com/id/Plague-Doctor-Costume/ https://www.instructables.com/id/Plague-Doctor-Costume/ In order to make Halloween scary this year, children are ordered to NOT wear masks.
subsubzero 6y ago
I like this article alot. I love archaic health ideas and what older cultures did to prevent and understand ailments. stuff like humors[1] or why a barbershop pole is red/white/blue[2] [1] - https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/shakespeare/fourhumors.html https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/shakespeare/fourhumors.ht... [2] - https://www.rd.com/article/barber-pole-history/ https://www.rd.com/article/barber-pole-history/

85 points by BerislavLopac 6y ago

Interesting that some science deniers in our modern times use scents in the form of essential oils to fend off or even treat diseases. Are there no written records testifying the effectiveness of such suits?

mumblemumble 6y ago
I'm sure there are, but, in a pre-scientific age, such accounts have a tendency to be rather unreliable. Where bubonic plague is primarily transmitted by flea bites, the plague doctor gear is ultimately a personal protective equipment version of the Maginot Line. But it would plausibly offer some protection against contracting pneumonic plague from getting coughed on all the time.
rsynnott 6y ago
The application of the scientific method to medicine is surprisingly modern (only really became standard in the late 19th century). There'll certainly be people claiming they worked, but they wouldn't have felt the need to produce evidence of this.
saltcured 6y ago
Many of the traditional oils do have observable effects, which is why they were selected and became traditions in the first place. They can have immediate and obvious effects on circulation, the sinuses, the bronchii, etc. Some may even have other medicinal aspects to manage inflammation. However, these observable effects are often more about managing symptoms and perception than with having any protective or curative mechanism. This is where the you run into problems. A reduction in symptoms does not necessarily correlate well with a reduction in pathogens or other disease processes, so you might have the same (or worse) outcome as without treatment, or might put yourself into risky situations with a false sense of security...

pulse7 6y ago

It's a kind of COVID-19 dress/cover, but with prolonged nose... maybe for better breathing...

speedgoose 6y ago

So much for openculture dot com when they serve a forbidden error.

nabla9 6y ago

Since covid-19 mostly transmits trough droplets (> 5 um) that are heavier than aerosols, reducing droplet speed and the dose people are exposed to could make all the difference. I wonder visor opening downwards would provide better protection for most cases and make it more comfortable to wear. That kind of prolonged nose could be designed to slow down the speed of droplets that end and exit. If they were made from hard material they would be easier to clean. (optionally you could add filter with larger volume to make it even more effective) Surgical- and cloth mask provide low protection to the wearer but give significant protection to others. But people don't wear them properly. You should trim your beard to get good protection, for example.

xenonite 6y ago
> "mostly transmits through droplets" I think it is too early to make such a claim. If no protection is applied (visor/mask) and no physical distancing is performed, I assume the claim might hold up. The SARS-CoV-2 aerosol route is still relevant, however. The masks are able to block this a bit while the visors are barely helpful. Hence I wouldn't say that the visors are a solution.
- nabla9 6y ago
  The fact that masks provide protection is evidence that aerosols are not significant transmission route. Surgical and cloth masks are not relevant to aerosol question. They work trough gravity sedimentation and inertial impaction. For smaller particles you need diffusion, and electrostatic attraction. In other words N95 mask that fits well.
  - jdkrorkf 6y ago
    Pretty much all surgical masks contain a middle melt-blown layer, ie: the exact diffussion/electrostatic layer used in N95 masks.
  - azepoi 6y ago
    this is wrong. Masks provide some protection it's not all or nothing.

blackhaz 6y ago

I need this. Imagine the power of the appearance of a smoldering beak, and the stick - to prevent those people who ignore isolation from approaching! Bow to the Plague Doctors of 17th century.

fhsm 6y ago
> and the stick ... 2m staff

mumblemumble 6y ago

An interesting counterpoint I came across recently :https://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2020/08/01/plague-doctors-the-last-word/ https://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2020/08/01/plague-doctors-... Long story short: Most plague doctors did not dress like this. The beak masks may have existed, but the usual plague doctor headgear was something that wouldn't go over nearly so well at a cosplay meeting.

dtech 6y ago
To save you a click, those look like KKK uniforms
ViViDboarder 6y ago
Is it really a counterpoint if it’s actually one of the points made in the article?
hombre_fatal 6y ago
That's mentioned and linked in TFA.

voidmain 6y ago

Modern particulate filters are pleated: you take a thin filter material that is effective at blocking particles but hard to get air through, and then fold a bunch of it up in a small space to increase the surface area and decrease the pressure drop required for air to flow through it. If you don't have a suitably thin material or don't have this technique, increasing the surface area by, say, making it into a big cone would probably also work. The miasma theory isn't quite right, but it could conceivably have provided a half decent rubric for designing a working particle filter: at least some unpleasant smells are carried by particles. (Burning incense inside the mask is an example of where this theory might lead you off course.)

mistersquid 6y ago

This subject is also featured in a MetaFilter front page post (FPP) titled "The 'Science' Behind the Plague Doctor Costume" on the site MetaFilter from 2015. [0] The FPP links to a Mental Floss article on the "Anatomy of 14th Century Bubonic Plague Hazmat Suits". [1] What struck and haunted me about the "science" of Bubonic plague equipment was how so very close those cultures were to understanding the transmission of many diseases (though, ironically, not Bubonic Plague) and the Germ Theory of disease itself. Quoting (in part) what I wrote then: > Daniel Defoe's _Journal of the Plague Year_ published in 1722 [2] comes just before Pasteur's experiments confirming the Germ Theory of disease and it, too, is tantalizingly close about the empirical cause of the spread of Bubonic plague. [3] Humans have come quite a ways toward understanding the science of infectious diseases, but given the many ways diseases propagate, one can't help but wonder how close we are to our 14th-century forbears when looked from the vantage of what we may know in 28th century. (That is, 14th century : 21st century :: 21st century : 28th century) [0] https://www.metafilter.com/154520/The-Science-Behind-the-Plague-Doctor-Costume https://www.metafilter.com/154520/The-Science-Behind-the-Pla... [1] http://mentalfloss.com/article/49217/anatomy-14th-century-bubonic-plague-hazmat-suits http://mentalfloss.com/article/49217/anatomy-14th-century-bu... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journal_of_the_Plague_Year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journal_of_the_Plague_Year [3] https://www.metafilter.com/154520/The-Science-Behind-the-Plague-Doctor-Costume#6277119 https://www.metafilter.com/154520/The-Science-Behind-the-Pla...

nanomonkey 6y ago

I feel like this is going to be the go to Halloween costume of the year.

DannyB2 6y ago
"Medieval Plague Doctor Mask & Costume" https://www.instructables.com/id/Plague-Doctor-Costume/ https://www.instructables.com/id/Plague-Doctor-Costume/ In order to make Halloween scary this year, children are ordered to NOT wear masks.

subsubzero 6y ago

I like this article alot. I love archaic health ideas and what older cultures did to prevent and understand ailments. stuff like humors[1] or why a barbershop pole is red/white/blue[2] [1] - https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/shakespeare/fourhumors.html https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/shakespeare/fourhumors.ht... [2] - https://www.rd.com/article/barber-pole-history/ https://www.rd.com/article/barber-pole-history/