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There was the apple gpu fiasco. Apple laptop GPUs were failing at an extraordinary rate in 2010-2011, and Apple were getting harangued in the media about it (wh

There was the apple gpu fiasco. Apple laptop GPUs were failing at an extraordinary rate in 2010-2011, and Apple were getting harangued in the media about it (which was justified). Apple eventually announced a program to cover replacement of the GPUs, but it was very delayed. I'm 100% convinced the delay was caused by Nvidia refusing to accept responsibility. When the program was released, in order to have the repair completed at no cost, your computer had to fail a very specific graphics diagnostic, and the failure would be linked to your serial number in Apple's repair CRM. At the time, no other apple repair program had this requirement — Don't get me wrong, it makes sense to use diagnostics to verify hardware issues, but they aren't the only tool you can use. I'm convinced Nvidia only would reimburse apple for computers that had a recorded failure of this specific test. Since 2014, apple has almost exclusively used AMD graphics cards in computers that do have discrete GPUs, and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest this was motivated with their terrible experience with Nvidia. (I'm aware I'm not really backing this up with evidence, but I think the publicly available facts about the whole situation support this narrative)

karlshea 6y ago
That situation was also following Nvidia spoiling one of Steve Jobs' announcements even further back, so there was already a bit of bad blood.
- 9935c101ab17a66 6y ago
  Good point, I had forgotten about that.
  - andoriyu 6y ago
    Which one was that?
scarface74 6y ago
Don't get me wrong, it makes sense to use diagnostics to verify hardware issues, but they aren't the only tool you can use. I'm convinced Nvidia only would reimburse apple for computers that had a recorded failure of this specific test. In 2010, Apple wasn’t exactly a beleaguered company. It wasn’t like NVidia not reimbursing Apple would break the bank. Apple should have repaired it just to protect its reputation. Jobs himself was famous for saying to high level employees that at a certain level of authority, you don’t get to make excuses.
- 9935c101ab17a66 6y ago
  I do think Apple should have just undertaken the repairs much, much earlier. I do also think that it was incredibly complex situation, and my guess is Apple was flabbergasted that Nvidia initially wouldn't reimburse them for the failed parts. So, internally at apple, my guess is that it was about the 'principle' of the matter. They also probably recognized that if they started replacing the boards of their own volition without an agreement in place, they would never be able to get any compensation from nvidia at all. Again, I agree with you, apple should have launched the program much, much earlier. But, I mean, that's besides the point because this isn't a post about how Apple handled these failing GPUs, it's about Nvidia's inability to work with others.
coreblocks 6y ago
While is was probably a factor, I believe it's also because NVIDIA refuses to let Apple modify their drivers to push their Metal API.
kmeisthax 6y ago
Apple also refuses to sign the kernel extension necessary for NVidia GPU drivers to run. NVidia had made a GPU driver for High Sierra, but literally a version later Apple locked down the kernel so that only signed drivers could be loaded. Anyone who was using Nvidia GPUs through, say, an external GPU box got screwed.
- TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
  I had really hoped that the external GPU thing would takeoff, and give us a good option for gaming on Macs. I bought the dev kit, and it was nothing but a headache, which stopped working at High Sierra too, because they stopped supporting TB2. I'm bitter about it. It really seems like we ought to be "there" by now, but it's starting to look like it will just never be a thing.
panpanna 6y ago
> I'm 100% convinced the delay was caused by Nvidia refusing to accept responsibility. To be fair, the issue was mainly caused by Apples form-over-function thermal design. To best of my knowledge, Nvidia GPUs works just fine in all other laptops.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  No. I had a laptop in 2010 that also suffered from this issue, and there were also PC GPUs affected. Laptops were only affected en masse because they have far more heat-cool thermal cycles than the average desktop computer.
- numpad0 6y ago
  Discrete GPUs break all the time, customers are just used to it. Maybe it’s improving since GTX1xxx/RX4xx era but they were extremely unreliable when Apple was using them/industry was switching to RoHS compliant Pb free solders.
- evancox100 6y ago
  100% not true, my Dell Latitude at the time also died. There were major class action lawsuits at the time and basically all the manufacturers had to accept liability and fix them.
- kcb 6y ago
  This issue was industry wide. RIP my XPS M1330.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- zokula 6y ago
  > To best of my knowledge, Nvidia GPUs works just fine in all other laptops. Nvidia bumpgate says hello.
Symmetry 6y ago
It was reported that the problem was NVidia switching to lead free solder for their chip to motherboard connections but not also switching the potting material to one that had the same thermal expansion coefficient as the new solder.
- pantalaimon 6y ago
  That was a general problem when the industry switched to lead free solder, see also the Red Ring of Death on the Xbox 360.

karlshea 6y ago

That situation was also following Nvidia spoiling one of Steve Jobs' announcements even further back, so there was already a bit of bad blood.

9935c101ab17a66 6y ago
Good point, I had forgotten about that.
- andoriyu 6y ago
  Which one was that?

scarface74 6y ago

Don't get me wrong, it makes sense to use diagnostics to verify hardware issues, but they aren't the only tool you can use. I'm convinced Nvidia only would reimburse apple for computers that had a recorded failure of this specific test. In 2010, Apple wasn’t exactly a beleaguered company. It wasn’t like NVidia not reimbursing Apple would break the bank. Apple should have repaired it just to protect its reputation. Jobs himself was famous for saying to high level employees that at a certain level of authority, you don’t get to make excuses.

9935c101ab17a66 6y ago
I do think Apple should have just undertaken the repairs much, much earlier. I do also think that it was incredibly complex situation, and my guess is Apple was flabbergasted that Nvidia initially wouldn't reimburse them for the failed parts. So, internally at apple, my guess is that it was about the 'principle' of the matter. They also probably recognized that if they started replacing the boards of their own volition without an agreement in place, they would never be able to get any compensation from nvidia at all. Again, I agree with you, apple should have launched the program much, much earlier. But, I mean, that's besides the point because this isn't a post about how Apple handled these failing GPUs, it's about Nvidia's inability to work with others.

coreblocks 6y ago

While is was probably a factor, I believe it's also because NVIDIA refuses to let Apple modify their drivers to push their Metal API.

kmeisthax 6y ago

Apple also refuses to sign the kernel extension necessary for NVidia GPU drivers to run. NVidia had made a GPU driver for High Sierra, but literally a version later Apple locked down the kernel so that only signed drivers could be loaded. Anyone who was using Nvidia GPUs through, say, an external GPU box got screwed.

TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
I had really hoped that the external GPU thing would takeoff, and give us a good option for gaming on Macs. I bought the dev kit, and it was nothing but a headache, which stopped working at High Sierra too, because they stopped supporting TB2. I'm bitter about it. It really seems like we ought to be "there" by now, but it's starting to look like it will just never be a thing.

panpanna 6y ago

> I'm 100% convinced the delay was caused by Nvidia refusing to accept responsibility. To be fair, the issue was mainly caused by Apples form-over-function thermal design. To best of my knowledge, Nvidia GPUs works just fine in all other laptops.

mschuster91 6y ago
No. I had a laptop in 2010 that also suffered from this issue, and there were also PC GPUs affected. Laptops were only affected en masse because they have far more heat-cool thermal cycles than the average desktop computer.
numpad0 6y ago
Discrete GPUs break all the time, customers are just used to it. Maybe it’s improving since GTX1xxx/RX4xx era but they were extremely unreliable when Apple was using them/industry was switching to RoHS compliant Pb free solders.
evancox100 6y ago
100% not true, my Dell Latitude at the time also died. There were major class action lawsuits at the time and basically all the manufacturers had to accept liability and fix them.
kcb 6y ago
This issue was industry wide. RIP my XPS M1330.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zokula 6y ago
> To best of my knowledge, Nvidia GPUs works just fine in all other laptops. Nvidia bumpgate says hello.

Symmetry 6y ago

It was reported that the problem was NVidia switching to lead free solder for their chip to motherboard connections but not also switching the potting material to one that had the same thermal expansion coefficient as the new solder.

pantalaimon 6y ago
That was a general problem when the industry switched to lead free solder, see also the Red Ring of Death on the Xbox 360.