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> Does anyone think it would make sense to create a drastically simpler set of web standards, so that making web browsers would become much simpler? Yes, I blo

> Does anyone think it would make sense to create a drastically simpler set of web standards, so that making web browsers would become much simpler? Yes, I bloody do! And by the way there is a less radical alternative option: just give up support for all the legacy features, quirks and redundancies - perhaps this might simplify the code significantly already. Another fact to keep in mind: there already are Gemini and Gopher.

SyneRyder 6y ago
And those Gopher browsers can be really tiny. I think both Jaruzel's Gopher Browser For Windows [1] and Phetch [2] are under a megabyte. Rather than a new web standard or ignoring "legacy", I'd point out that there are even web browsers for the Commodore 64 and Apple II. You don't need to implement every tag, the point of HTML is to ignore tags you don't understand and it should still render. Pages with correct markup are still readable in ancient browsers that don't understand CSS. If your page isn't readable in Lynx and Links, you didn't code it properly. You can't support every site obviously, but Links [3] has shown you can go a long way by just supporting a subset of web features. The speed when you're not trying to render pixel perfect layouts is astonishing. [1] http://www.jaruzel.com/gopher/gopher-client-browser-for-windows http://www.jaruzel.com/gopher/gopher-client-browser-for-wind... [2] https://github.com/xvxx/phetch https://github.com/xvxx/phetch [3] http://links.twibright.com/ http://links.twibright.com/
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  > the point of HTML is to ignore tags you don't understand and it should still render. IMHO it could help a lot if a browser could let you configure the way it treat a particular unknown tag: just ignore it with its entire content or treat it like another kind of tag it knows.
  - remram 6y ago
    I was thinking this. The canvas tag displays its contents if the canvas API is not supported, while the script tag is ignored. This means the browser still has to know about the tag to be able to not-implement it the right way.
  - SyneRyder 6y ago
    That's a great idea - displaying the contents of a script or a style tag would be a terrible experience. Letting the user configure it would help future-proof the browser too.
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  > If your page isn't readable in Lynx and Links, you didn't code it properly. Lynx/Links could really use an update (excuse me if they already have it - they didn't the last time I checked). There is nothing hard nor improper in supporting/using most of the HTML5 semantic tags.
hliyan 6y ago
Gopher would have been great with a facelift. Another thought: what if browsers develop the ability to render markdown natively (in addition to HTML)?
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  Markdown would need a better specification then. Today we have a number of extended implementations, want even more extensions and most of the implementations won't even handle the trailing double space (soft line break) the way it is meant to. But indeed I'd love Markdown or something like that (AFAIK AsciiDoc is better) to be everywhere. I actually evangelize Markdown on daily basis encouraging everybody to use Typora instead of MS/Libre Office in every case when there is no practical reason to use the latter.
  - hliyan 6y ago
    My biggest regret is that Google Drive not only does not seem to natively support plain text editing, it seems to go out of the way to make it harder. I wish it could be more like Dropbox.

SyneRyder 6y ago

And those Gopher browsers can be really tiny. I think both Jaruzel's Gopher Browser For Windows [1] and Phetch [2] are under a megabyte. Rather than a new web standard or ignoring "legacy", I'd point out that there are even web browsers for the Commodore 64 and Apple II. You don't need to implement every tag, the point of HTML is to ignore tags you don't understand and it should still render. Pages with correct markup are still readable in ancient browsers that don't understand CSS. If your page isn't readable in Lynx and Links, you didn't code it properly. You can't support every site obviously, but Links [3] has shown you can go a long way by just supporting a subset of web features. The speed when you're not trying to render pixel perfect layouts is astonishing. [1] http://www.jaruzel.com/gopher/gopher-client-browser-for-windows http://www.jaruzel.com/gopher/gopher-client-browser-for-wind... [2] https://github.com/xvxx/phetch https://github.com/xvxx/phetch [3] http://links.twibright.com/ http://links.twibright.com/

qwerty456127 6y ago
> the point of HTML is to ignore tags you don't understand and it should still render. IMHO it could help a lot if a browser could let you configure the way it treat a particular unknown tag: just ignore it with its entire content or treat it like another kind of tag it knows.
- remram 6y ago
  I was thinking this. The canvas tag displays its contents if the canvas API is not supported, while the script tag is ignored. This means the browser still has to know about the tag to be able to not-implement it the right way.
- SyneRyder 6y ago
  That's a great idea - displaying the contents of a script or a style tag would be a terrible experience. Letting the user configure it would help future-proof the browser too.
qwerty456127 6y ago
> If your page isn't readable in Lynx and Links, you didn't code it properly. Lynx/Links could really use an update (excuse me if they already have it - they didn't the last time I checked). There is nothing hard nor improper in supporting/using most of the HTML5 semantic tags.

hliyan 6y ago

Gopher would have been great with a facelift. Another thought: what if browsers develop the ability to render markdown natively (in addition to HTML)?

qwerty456127 6y ago
Markdown would need a better specification then. Today we have a number of extended implementations, want even more extensions and most of the implementations won't even handle the trailing double space (soft line break) the way it is meant to. But indeed I'd love Markdown or something like that (AFAIK AsciiDoc is better) to be everywhere. I actually evangelize Markdown on daily basis encouraging everybody to use Typora instead of MS/Libre Office in every case when there is no practical reason to use the latter.
- hliyan 6y ago
  My biggest regret is that Google Drive not only does not seem to natively support plain text editing, it seems to go out of the way to make it harder. I wish it could be more like Dropbox.