6 ms·

You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period. 1 rolling black out every 20 years isn't al

You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period. 1 rolling black out every 20 years isn't all that crazy. Would you rather we spend billions/trillions on infrastructure used for 3 days every 20 years?

the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
> You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period. Do you have some numbers for that? The only load shedding I remember in Europe was done through turning off large consumers and they would typically do this on their side.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mpweiher 6y ago
> most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black out Name one? I've never experienced (or heard) of one in Germany, for example, during my lifetime. And of course it's not "rolling blackout", but "rolling blackouts", plural.
- khuey 6y ago
  I don't know about most but it's certainly not unheard of in places with similar climates. https://www.news.com.au/national/south-australia/rolling-blackouts-ordered-as-adelaide-swelters-in-heatwave/news-story/13394f19db1ee94a59f4036fccdc1ba7 https://www.news.com.au/national/south-australia/rolling-bla...
- baskire 6y ago
  Here’s two examples of power grid failures in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_European_blackout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_European_blackout https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-blackout-raises-questions-over-germanys-power-grid/a-47730394 https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-blackout-raises-questions-over-...
  - morelisp 6y ago
    The size (not always duration) of outage in your second link would be considered routine in many American cities. To take SF as an example: - 2020, well, here you go - 2018/2019 should also need no overview, CA is probably the worst power situation in OECD countries in the 21st century - 2017, 88k without power https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/21/power-outage-shuts-down-barts-montgomery-station/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/21/power-outage-sh... - 2016, 23k https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/10/14/pge-power-outage-bay-area-oncoming-storm-richmonnd-san-pablo-peninsula/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/10/14/pge-power-outag... - 2015, 45k https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/08/thousands-of-bay-area-homes-hit-with-power-outage-as-brief-heat-wave-sizzles/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/08/thousands-of-ba... I'm only picking the first Google result for each year. I could keep going but I hope the point is made: Berlin got a blackout once in a decade like most American cities get multiple times a year. It reacted comparatively slowly because it's so infrequent there was no recovery plan. The political impact of the outage was huge, the country's attitude was that everything is collapsing - and by "collapsing", they mean "like America is all the time."
    - dmode 6y ago
      I don’t know what you are comparing. A power outage due to an accident, affecting a limited population is very different than blackouts. Such emergency outages happen every day
      - morelisp 6y ago
        > I don’t know what you are comparing I'm comparing what the parent asked to compare, even though it's not load shedding. > Such emergency outages happen every day In America. Not Germany. Like, yes, literally some level of outage occurs daily, but it's an order of magnitude difference. US: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37652 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37652 Germany: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/EN/Areas/Energy/Companies/SecurityOfSupply/QualityOfSupply/QualityOfSupply_node.html https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/EN/Areas/Energy/Companies/S...
    - 6y ago
- vondur 6y ago
  This is more specific to California, not the US as a whole.
morelisp 6y ago
> Would you rather we spend billions/trillions on infrastructure used for 3 days every 20 years? I don't know, California, how about you start by spending the billions you need to make sure people just baseline don't burn to death, and then we'll see what delivery reliability looks like?
rlanday 6y ago
Didn’t PG&E also have to shut off a bunch of people’s power last summer to try to avoid burning down any more cities? I recall there was talk about this happening for an entire decade. So really at this point it seems like summer blackouts might be happening every summer in California for the foreseeable future.

the_mitsuhiko 6y ago

> You do realize that most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black of some sort in the same time period. Do you have some numbers for that? The only load shedding I remember in Europe was done through turning off large consumers and they would typically do this on their side.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mpweiher 6y ago

> most 1st world countries have experienced a rolling black out Name one? I've never experienced (or heard) of one in Germany, for example, during my lifetime. And of course it's not "rolling blackout", but "rolling blackouts", plural.

khuey 6y ago
I don't know about most but it's certainly not unheard of in places with similar climates. https://www.news.com.au/national/south-australia/rolling-blackouts-ordered-as-adelaide-swelters-in-heatwave/news-story/13394f19db1ee94a59f4036fccdc1ba7 https://www.news.com.au/national/south-australia/rolling-bla...
baskire 6y ago
Here’s two examples of power grid failures in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_European_blackout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_European_blackout https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-blackout-raises-questions-over-germanys-power-grid/a-47730394 https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-blackout-raises-questions-over-...
- morelisp 6y ago
  The size (not always duration) of outage in your second link would be considered routine in many American cities. To take SF as an example: - 2020, well, here you go - 2018/2019 should also need no overview, CA is probably the worst power situation in OECD countries in the 21st century - 2017, 88k without power https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/21/power-outage-shuts-down-barts-montgomery-station/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/21/power-outage-sh... - 2016, 23k https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/10/14/pge-power-outage-bay-area-oncoming-storm-richmonnd-san-pablo-peninsula/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/10/14/pge-power-outag... - 2015, 45k https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/08/thousands-of-bay-area-homes-hit-with-power-outage-as-brief-heat-wave-sizzles/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/08/thousands-of-ba... I'm only picking the first Google result for each year. I could keep going but I hope the point is made: Berlin got a blackout once in a decade like most American cities get multiple times a year. It reacted comparatively slowly because it's so infrequent there was no recovery plan. The political impact of the outage was huge, the country's attitude was that everything is collapsing - and by "collapsing", they mean "like America is all the time."
  - dmode 6y ago
    I don’t know what you are comparing. A power outage due to an accident, affecting a limited population is very different than blackouts. Such emergency outages happen every day
    - morelisp 6y ago
      > I don’t know what you are comparing I'm comparing what the parent asked to compare, even though it's not load shedding. > Such emergency outages happen every day In America. Not Germany. Like, yes, literally some level of outage occurs daily, but it's an order of magnitude difference. US: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37652 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37652 Germany: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/EN/Areas/Energy/Companies/SecurityOfSupply/QualityOfSupply/QualityOfSupply_node.html https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/EN/Areas/Energy/Companies/S...
  - 6y ago
vondur 6y ago
This is more specific to California, not the US as a whole.

morelisp 6y ago

> Would you rather we spend billions/trillions on infrastructure used for 3 days every 20 years? I don't know, California, how about you start by spending the billions you need to make sure people just baseline don't burn to death, and then we'll see what delivery reliability looks like?

rlanday 6y ago

Didn’t PG&E also have to shut off a bunch of people’s power last summer to try to avoid burning down any more cities? I recall there was talk about this happening for an entire decade. So really at this point it seems like summer blackouts might be happening every summer in California for the foreseeable future.