>But it's ultimately orthogonal. There was another vision of devops where it wasn't orthogonal: software engineers would write software to manage itself. Deplo

>But it's ultimately orthogonal. There was another vision of devops where it wasn't orthogonal: software engineers would write software to manage itself. Deployment, monitoring, resiliency, etc. would be woven into the application instead of being someone else's problem. Management would be done through APIs instead of config files and shells. But containerization kind of cleaved the world between "making containers" and "running containers." Even if the same person does both, they don't look much like each other. Distributed systems problems are hard, and usually get outsourced to battle-tested commodity services (k8s, zookeeper, consul, etc) which need their own management. Knowing your own code inside and out doesn't really help you debug a loss of quorum; the consensus protocol is "over there." And the APIs turned out to be so complicated that we built config files and shells for them anyway (e.g. Terraform).