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> America is no longer a place that smart people want to move to. It still is. you theory is that it suddenly stopped being that country suddenly from April o

> America is no longer a place that smart people want to move to. It still is. you theory is that it suddenly stopped being that country suddenly from April of this year? Totally absurd logic. Check back how many ppl apply for h1b next year when pandemic is over.

gambiting 6y ago
Obviously this is a sample of size one, but growing up my dream was to move to the US. Now I wouldn't move there no matter what. Maybe for some absolutely stupid amount of money, but that's true of literally anywhere. Edit: actually, it's a bit more than one - I have friends who work for SV companies in their London offices and they all rejected real offers to move to US(with an increase in pay) citing issues plaguing the country. My cousin had a transfer visa already arranged and ready and changed his mind for the same reason - US is just not an attractive country to move to. Or at least in my mind it's equal to Russia as a place to live in - I'd consider it for good money but it's not normally on my list because it seems like the systematic issues of the country are off putting.
- dominotw 6y ago
  > Now I wouldn't move there no matter what. Maybe for some absolutely stupid amount of money. :) stupid amount of money , what would this be for you, compared to current amount of money you make? > with an increase in pay Maybe they were low balled. I will bet my house that they will move to SV in a heartbeat if they were paid what SV engineers get paid. Just wait till pandemic is over.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    I don't even know, I have everything I need, I honestly don't see or have a need to change a job for more money. If someone offered me 500k I'd obviously give it a serious consideration because that's "stupid amount of money", but even then I'd do it for a year or two and come back(I could get several houses for that amount of money here lol). But like I said, that's true of anywhere - offer me 500k and I'll work in North Korea for a bit. >>. I will bet my house that they will move to SV in a heartbeat if they were paid what SV engineers get paid I don't know, I have a friend who moved from a £50k/year job in UK to a $250k/year job in the US(SV) and he's currently planning to move back, he massively dislikes everything about working and living in the US. Money isn't everything. But of course, these are anecdotes.
    - dominotw 6y ago
      > he's currently planning to move back Tell me when he actually moves back :), i guarantee you that he is BS-ing. All my indian friends always talk about "moving back" but we never do. Everyone knows that its BS but we let it slide. remember all the celebreties that vowed to renounce their citizenship if trump is elected. Yep, they are still here. every one of them.
      - ecocentrik 6y ago
        You seem to be actively discounting other people's opinions. Why not just accept that the US is no longer aligned with the interests of some (not all) skilled foreign workers. OP does seem to be open to discussions of increased compensation which seems to be one way to address the additional risk foreign workers have to manage in the US.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Heck I wouldn’t move to SV for any realistic amount of money I could make and I live in the southeast US. Once you have “enough” you don’t have to make choices based on making more.
    - dominotw 6y ago
      so you are willing to work 20 yrs of your life in southeast of US vs working 10yrs in SV and retiring to wherever you want?
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Have you heard the story of the Mexican fisherman? You mean if I were hypothetically 27 years old, with a 3100 square foot house in the burbs where I am paying $2200/month mortgage, married with 2.1 kids, both my wife and I working and we are able to put one spouses entire salary toward long term goals, I could move to SV, work 10 years and move somewhere cheaper to buy the big house in the burbs so I could enjoy the nice laid back life that I already enjoy? I was a lot older when that decision became a realistic possibility for me to pursue. But I made the same calculation. In hindsight, I’m glad I did. I chose to go down a road that allowed me to work remotely for BigTech. But I had no idea that I would fall into this position. I thought I would be working for a local consulting company at best when my youngest graduated.
        gambiting 6y ago
        Bingo. I have a house, two brand new cars, can afford holidays few times a year(and actually have the holiday allowance to go on them), growing savings, growing pension fund.....so why would I move to US and deal with all the BS of American life? To achieve exactly the same thing, but maybe with a slightly bigger house and a fancier car? I'll pass thanks.
        scarface74 6y ago
        We have two cars that sit in the garage now most of the time because we don’t go anywhere (Post Covid). We don’t buy lunch out, we don’t eat out, no gym memberships etc.
- iagovar 6y ago
  I think you're exaggerating a bit. The US has some drawbacks (like healthcare and a tendency to social conflict) but americans seem to be welcoming people and if you're in a high paid field, definitely the US offers way higher salaries. If I was offered a good contract I won't lie, I would think about it, but it's still pretty attractive compared to anywhere else. I don't see any reason to "not move no matter what". It's definitely in the top list of desirability. I'm pretty sure that I would have an easier time making friends and a life for myself in the US than in Germany or most northern-european countries, and if you're qualified enough you'll make decent money. Now imagine you're a top IT guy in some poor country. Do you really think that it would be that difficult decision? It's easy to say "meh" when you live in Europe.
  - ithkuil 6y ago
    The pros and cons vary significantly based in the nationality and skin color of the applicant.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    >>It's easy to say "meh" when you live in Europe. Well yes, obviously this was spoken from a perspective of a European so moving to US is not exactly appealing. But if you're from somewhere else then I can see how US would be at or near the top of your list.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bassman9000 6y ago
  US is just not an attractive country to move to. Or at least in my mind it's equal to Russia as a place to live in Come on. Really. Equal to Russia. We're reaching levels of antiUS kneejerking that shouldn't be possible. On the upside, salaries here will grow, which is nice.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    The key part that you have missed is "in my mind". I'm personally equally likely to move to either US or Russia, if I was offered enough money. And reasons why I wouldn't want to move to either are pretty similar - that's not me saying that the countries are the same.
    - bassman9000 6y ago
      I'm personally equally likely to move to either US or Russia You've established a hierarchy and placed both countries at the same level, thus making them the same.
rephlex2097 6y ago
Depends on the elections outcome, I guess.

gambiting 6y ago

Obviously this is a sample of size one, but growing up my dream was to move to the US. Now I wouldn't move there no matter what. Maybe for some absolutely stupid amount of money, but that's true of literally anywhere. Edit: actually, it's a bit more than one - I have friends who work for SV companies in their London offices and they all rejected real offers to move to US(with an increase in pay) citing issues plaguing the country. My cousin had a transfer visa already arranged and ready and changed his mind for the same reason - US is just not an attractive country to move to. Or at least in my mind it's equal to Russia as a place to live in - I'd consider it for good money but it's not normally on my list because it seems like the systematic issues of the country are off putting.

dominotw 6y ago
> Now I wouldn't move there no matter what. Maybe for some absolutely stupid amount of money. :) stupid amount of money , what would this be for you, compared to current amount of money you make? > with an increase in pay Maybe they were low balled. I will bet my house that they will move to SV in a heartbeat if they were paid what SV engineers get paid. Just wait till pandemic is over.
- gambiting 6y ago
  I don't even know, I have everything I need, I honestly don't see or have a need to change a job for more money. If someone offered me 500k I'd obviously give it a serious consideration because that's "stupid amount of money", but even then I'd do it for a year or two and come back(I could get several houses for that amount of money here lol). But like I said, that's true of anywhere - offer me 500k and I'll work in North Korea for a bit. >>. I will bet my house that they will move to SV in a heartbeat if they were paid what SV engineers get paid I don't know, I have a friend who moved from a £50k/year job in UK to a $250k/year job in the US(SV) and he's currently planning to move back, he massively dislikes everything about working and living in the US. Money isn't everything. But of course, these are anecdotes.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    > he's currently planning to move back Tell me when he actually moves back :), i guarantee you that he is BS-ing. All my indian friends always talk about "moving back" but we never do. Everyone knows that its BS but we let it slide. remember all the celebreties that vowed to renounce their citizenship if trump is elected. Yep, they are still here. every one of them.
    - ecocentrik 6y ago
      You seem to be actively discounting other people's opinions. Why not just accept that the US is no longer aligned with the interests of some (not all) skilled foreign workers. OP does seem to be open to discussions of increased compensation which seems to be one way to address the additional risk foreign workers have to manage in the US.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Heck I wouldn’t move to SV for any realistic amount of money I could make and I live in the southeast US. Once you have “enough” you don’t have to make choices based on making more.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    so you are willing to work 20 yrs of your life in southeast of US vs working 10yrs in SV and retiring to wherever you want?
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Have you heard the story of the Mexican fisherman? You mean if I were hypothetically 27 years old, with a 3100 square foot house in the burbs where I am paying $2200/month mortgage, married with 2.1 kids, both my wife and I working and we are able to put one spouses entire salary toward long term goals, I could move to SV, work 10 years and move somewhere cheaper to buy the big house in the burbs so I could enjoy the nice laid back life that I already enjoy? I was a lot older when that decision became a realistic possibility for me to pursue. But I made the same calculation. In hindsight, I’m glad I did. I chose to go down a road that allowed me to work remotely for BigTech. But I had no idea that I would fall into this position. I thought I would be working for a local consulting company at best when my youngest graduated.
      - gambiting 6y ago
        Bingo. I have a house, two brand new cars, can afford holidays few times a year(and actually have the holiday allowance to go on them), growing savings, growing pension fund.....so why would I move to US and deal with all the BS of American life? To achieve exactly the same thing, but maybe with a slightly bigger house and a fancier car? I'll pass thanks.
        scarface74 6y ago
        We have two cars that sit in the garage now most of the time because we don’t go anywhere (Post Covid). We don’t buy lunch out, we don’t eat out, no gym memberships etc.
iagovar 6y ago
I think you're exaggerating a bit. The US has some drawbacks (like healthcare and a tendency to social conflict) but americans seem to be welcoming people and if you're in a high paid field, definitely the US offers way higher salaries. If I was offered a good contract I won't lie, I would think about it, but it's still pretty attractive compared to anywhere else. I don't see any reason to "not move no matter what". It's definitely in the top list of desirability. I'm pretty sure that I would have an easier time making friends and a life for myself in the US than in Germany or most northern-european countries, and if you're qualified enough you'll make decent money. Now imagine you're a top IT guy in some poor country. Do you really think that it would be that difficult decision? It's easy to say "meh" when you live in Europe.
- ithkuil 6y ago
  The pros and cons vary significantly based in the nationality and skin color of the applicant.
- gambiting 6y ago
  >>It's easy to say "meh" when you live in Europe. Well yes, obviously this was spoken from a perspective of a European so moving to US is not exactly appealing. But if you're from somewhere else then I can see how US would be at or near the top of your list.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bassman9000 6y ago
US is just not an attractive country to move to. Or at least in my mind it's equal to Russia as a place to live in Come on. Really. Equal to Russia. We're reaching levels of antiUS kneejerking that shouldn't be possible. On the upside, salaries here will grow, which is nice.
- gambiting 6y ago
  The key part that you have missed is "in my mind". I'm personally equally likely to move to either US or Russia, if I was offered enough money. And reasons why I wouldn't want to move to either are pretty similar - that's not me saying that the countries are the same.
  - bassman9000 6y ago
    I'm personally equally likely to move to either US or Russia You've established a hierarchy and placed both countries at the same level, thus making them the same.

rephlex2097 6y ago

Depends on the elections outcome, I guess.