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I am surprised to see Canada there. Jobs in tech in Canada pay lte half of the comps in US. Between SK and China, SK's per capita income is not far off from US

I am surprised to see Canada there. Jobs in tech in Canada pay lte half of the comps in US. Between SK and China, SK's per capita income is not far off from US but China's is. I am surprised China is able to compete better than US purely on financial might.

amir734jj 6y ago
Not everyone goes to be a professor at MIT or Harvard. State Universities actually don't pay good and it's hard to get tenure (literally have to wait for someone to get retired or die ...)
oneplane 6y ago
There is the uncertainty and high cost of living in the USA as well, so having a high salary isn't the big factor people always make it out to be. If you make 1000000 but all of that does down the drain because the country you earn it in doesn't have common facilities available you end up with a pretty bad bottom line.
vsskanth 6y ago
For Canada, its not always about comp. If you're Indian there is a 100+ year (projected) waitlist for US permanent residency. Chinese have a 5 year waitlist and every other nationality has no waitlist. This means for the whole waiting period you need to be employed (in a job that's related to your degree) or you lose legal status. Compare this to Canada where you arrive with permanent residency, have good healthcare and don't have to worry about losing your residence. Easier to put down roots. The best deal is for those who earn their stock grants in the US and make a mid-career move to Canada. They start with a good asset base.
- actuator 6y ago
  That is very specific to Indians. What percentage of them make up the people in unis/research? From your comment it seems like rest aren't that affected by this. The stock grants in US ones definitely are better off, a lot of Europeans also use this and go back.
  - vsskanth 6y ago
    Majority of STEM grad students in the US are either from India or China. They are also the biggest pool of potential immigrants (2B+ combined population). For Chinese, it's becoming more and more attractive to just stay back (current geopolitical tensions aren't helping). If you're a EU citizen, grad school in the US is not that attractive comparitively unless you're specifically targeting a lab. Over there you have flexible options like doing a PhD through research projects at work (some govts even give you a subsidy for this). Full time grad students have decent benefits too.
    - actuator 6y ago
      As far as I understand most of the Indian STEM(specially CS) students treat higher studies in US as a pathway to a job in US. I was asking as to how many eventually go into academia professionally. For Chinese, I think there are a lot of other strong reasons to stay back. As I understand from the amount of research coming out of their unis in mainland, they seem to have improved a lot there. Also, R&D in some industries reaching on par to Western counterparts, with jobs paying quite well in big cities, so little reason for them to move away from their homeland.
bonchicbongenre 6y ago
It's definitely not all about compensation, and it's not just an industrial move away from the US. I personally chose to do my CS PhD studies in Canada rather than at (better funded, higher-status) American options, after leaving a US undergrad. Those other options would've been strongly preferable had it not been for my experience with US culture during undergrad; as it was, US culture made clear to me that staying there was out of the question. More than a dozen of my friends who graduated at the same time did similarly, both those who went on to grad school and those who went into industry. This wasn't because there weren't options for us in the US — we all had choices. The honest truth is that, among those bright people I knew in undergrad, the large majority (Americans and international alike) were wholly disgusted by the US in recent years, and being unable to effect any change, they left the country.
licebmi__at__ 6y ago
Just an anecdote, but within my friends, only those who work in tech are eager to move to US. My physics and math friends from college focused on research moved or like to move to other countries. The ones who I know that moved either have family in there, or are working in technician positions and are not really regarded as "the brightest" on our circle. As for myself, I have avoided any position that requires me to move in the US. I take a substantial cut because of COL adjustments, but I'm not that interested FU money.
- actuator 6y ago
  Yeah, I think the appeal for tech in US has been either on money/cutting edge stuff. I think the cutting edge stuff is getting less pronounced now because of either global offices/remote or ease of access of resources anywhere.

amir734jj 6y ago

Not everyone goes to be a professor at MIT or Harvard. State Universities actually don't pay good and it's hard to get tenure (literally have to wait for someone to get retired or die ...)

oneplane 6y ago

There is the uncertainty and high cost of living in the USA as well, so having a high salary isn't the big factor people always make it out to be. If you make 1000000 but all of that does down the drain because the country you earn it in doesn't have common facilities available you end up with a pretty bad bottom line.

vsskanth 6y ago

For Canada, its not always about comp. If you're Indian there is a 100+ year (projected) waitlist for US permanent residency. Chinese have a 5 year waitlist and every other nationality has no waitlist. This means for the whole waiting period you need to be employed (in a job that's related to your degree) or you lose legal status. Compare this to Canada where you arrive with permanent residency, have good healthcare and don't have to worry about losing your residence. Easier to put down roots. The best deal is for those who earn their stock grants in the US and make a mid-career move to Canada. They start with a good asset base.

actuator 6y ago
That is very specific to Indians. What percentage of them make up the people in unis/research? From your comment it seems like rest aren't that affected by this. The stock grants in US ones definitely are better off, a lot of Europeans also use this and go back.
- vsskanth 6y ago
  Majority of STEM grad students in the US are either from India or China. They are also the biggest pool of potential immigrants (2B+ combined population). For Chinese, it's becoming more and more attractive to just stay back (current geopolitical tensions aren't helping). If you're a EU citizen, grad school in the US is not that attractive comparitively unless you're specifically targeting a lab. Over there you have flexible options like doing a PhD through research projects at work (some govts even give you a subsidy for this). Full time grad students have decent benefits too.
  - actuator 6y ago
    As far as I understand most of the Indian STEM(specially CS) students treat higher studies in US as a pathway to a job in US. I was asking as to how many eventually go into academia professionally. For Chinese, I think there are a lot of other strong reasons to stay back. As I understand from the amount of research coming out of their unis in mainland, they seem to have improved a lot there. Also, R&D in some industries reaching on par to Western counterparts, with jobs paying quite well in big cities, so little reason for them to move away from their homeland.

bonchicbongenre 6y ago

It's definitely not all about compensation, and it's not just an industrial move away from the US. I personally chose to do my CS PhD studies in Canada rather than at (better funded, higher-status) American options, after leaving a US undergrad. Those other options would've been strongly preferable had it not been for my experience with US culture during undergrad; as it was, US culture made clear to me that staying there was out of the question. More than a dozen of my friends who graduated at the same time did similarly, both those who went on to grad school and those who went into industry. This wasn't because there weren't options for us in the US — we all had choices. The honest truth is that, among those bright people I knew in undergrad, the large majority (Americans and international alike) were wholly disgusted by the US in recent years, and being unable to effect any change, they left the country.

licebmi__at__ 6y ago

Just an anecdote, but within my friends, only those who work in tech are eager to move to US. My physics and math friends from college focused on research moved or like to move to other countries. The ones who I know that moved either have family in there, or are working in technician positions and are not really regarded as "the brightest" on our circle. As for myself, I have avoided any position that requires me to move in the US. I take a substantial cut because of COL adjustments, but I'm not that interested FU money.

actuator 6y ago
Yeah, I think the appeal for tech in US has been either on money/cutting edge stuff. I think the cutting edge stuff is getting less pronounced now because of either global offices/remote or ease of access of resources anywhere.