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H1B is screwing generations of US tech workers, and dampening STEM initiatives which is really going to hurt the economy later when we need skilled labor and in

H1B is screwing generations of US tech workers, and dampening STEM initiatives which is really going to hurt the economy later when we need skilled labor and innovation at another scale. We need to hire and train US. Anyone can learn the skills, why are we rewarding education in other countries? Why are we drowning a hot job market and neutering the innovation industry?

harichinnan 6y ago
Agree. H1B goes to some sketchy companies and for jobs that replace Americans. The lottery is the culprit here. Companies that face skills shortage don't get enough H1Bs. Many H1Bs like myself were educated at taxpayer expense in their native countries. US essentially gets them for free to help fuel silicon valley and other tech hubs. Skills shortage is real. If you are in a position to hire people, you would understand. You can't train people to perform at a silicon valley interview level no matter how much money you pour into training courses. Proper education from a university is needed to clear the high bar for most people. Free college education like in government run colleges in India would solve some of the skills shortage.
- peteradio 6y ago
  What skills shortage have you witnessed?
- baskire 6y ago
  There’s no skills shortage. Just an unwillingness to take a risk on someone outside the normal profile. I’ve done interviews where we passed on a candidate who’d be educated and onboarded within 1.5 years. Except nobody wanted to take that risk as we’d rather hire the person who can start today. If there was no h1b program, we’d of hired that American and trained them.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    And as soon as that person got trained, they would jump ship.
- throwaway537383 6y ago
  Talent shortage is real, but it's not because people can pass the SV interviews. Blind is full of stories of people who go on to work at a FAANG after a few months of LC. Proper education has nothing to do with it - the way hiring is done by them has been cracked years ago (there are even books about it). It's because most companies don't like to train and they want to pay pennies to new engineers. I am an immigrant myself, but I don't think the US gets anything for free when it gets an educated H1B. It's a trade off, you get more opportunities than any other country can give you. It's up to you to be able to identify them. H1B fraud is pervasive at this point and it needs a major reform. I have friends who work in immigration and it's obvious that some schools in India (JNTU for instance) are diploma mills that teaches nothing and ends up with people who should never have a degree to begin with. They exist just to ship people to the US through networking. Then there is the fraud where people from different countries come do their masters at Maharishi International University (or similar) and, once again,study nothing and get a degree. Finally the cherry on top is a lot of the people who were in H1Bs become rich by creating staffing companies bringing more H1Bs and paying them pennies. The government only does a bit of enforcement really. One of the few good things Trump did was to enforce the rules more. Most H1Bs need a lot of training to be productive. I have worked with many. The H1B program - when it comes to STEM - was created to bring very educated people (think top universities with good grades, IIT and similar). Unfortunately, the many who should not have gotten one in the first place, create the problems for the ones who should truly qualify to get an H1B.
mobilefriendly 6y ago
Agree 100%. The reason is that the big tech contractors hire legions of H1-B visa holders (and lobbyists to protect the H1-B program). These workers are paid less than Americans and are tightly bound to their employer-- they risking losing their US status and will eventually be deported if they lose their jobs. Its another way corporate America uses the political system to abuse American workers, create a compliant workforce that can't easily get hired away. It limits opportunity here.
- oneplane 6y ago
  That's a nice fantasy, but the intended usage of H1-B is still in effect: there are plenty of americans that simply do not have the skill for the job, or that do not want to do the job. Of course the system gets abused, that's par for the course in the united states with all the lobbying. But that doesn't mean that a company is going to suddenly use non-existent local workforce to do the job. At the same time, if it really was just displacing locals for profit, that same could probably be done by just moving an entire department out of the country. There is only one real way to resolve it effectively: be the better option. If you are trying to apply some weird protectionism construction instead of simply being the best option, it just ends up hurting everyone.
  - peteradio 6y ago
    > be the better option When I say jump you say how high!
  - unishark 6y ago
    They will want to do the job if it pays better. Others will want to go to school to earn the skills. It's just supply and demand. It strikes me as silly that it's next to impossible for an average STEM grad in the US to actually pass the interview process at most of our largest tech companies. Why are they here then, other than to drive up the cost of SV real estate. Why would offshoring the department hurt everyone though? Does "everyone" only count US residents?
    - 6y ago
mountainboot 6y ago
Agreed. Facing layoffs at my current employer, have found it tough to land a new job. There is no "skills shortage", just a desire for cheap labor.
amir734jj 6y ago
It shows you have no clue about the system. In my medium-size company, good luck finding an American to be a system support engineer or be on the call late night when things go wrong. The company will go bankrupt. America relies on cheap foreign workers in every aspect of society.
- dropit_sphere 6y ago
  Why do I care about the welfare of a company that wouldn't pay me enough to be a support engineer?
  - amir734jj 6y ago
    That's a great point. I agree. But it's an unfortunate reality.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  I'd be willing to be on call late at night, and/or be a systems support engineer, but the pay needs to be commensurate
- scarface74 6y ago
  What are the chances that your company doesn’t pay enough to make it worth it? I know that the major cloud providers pay Technical Account Managers or the equivalent enough to get Americans to be at an enterprise’s beckon call day or night. You can’t tell me that you couldn’t get a qualified Americans for 70% of what the major cloud providers pay.
Bhilai 6y ago
I am an immigrant and I work in tech, if you are an American who can do what I do then based on my interview experiences, you ll have no trouble finding jobs in the tech industry. No advanced degrees required. Immigrants on my team work hand in hand with Americans to do great work and we believe in the value an individual provides not where they come from.

harichinnan 6y ago

Agree. H1B goes to some sketchy companies and for jobs that replace Americans. The lottery is the culprit here. Companies that face skills shortage don't get enough H1Bs. Many H1Bs like myself were educated at taxpayer expense in their native countries. US essentially gets them for free to help fuel silicon valley and other tech hubs. Skills shortage is real. If you are in a position to hire people, you would understand. You can't train people to perform at a silicon valley interview level no matter how much money you pour into training courses. Proper education from a university is needed to clear the high bar for most people. Free college education like in government run colleges in India would solve some of the skills shortage.

peteradio 6y ago
What skills shortage have you witnessed?
baskire 6y ago
There’s no skills shortage. Just an unwillingness to take a risk on someone outside the normal profile. I’ve done interviews where we passed on a candidate who’d be educated and onboarded within 1.5 years. Except nobody wanted to take that risk as we’d rather hire the person who can start today. If there was no h1b program, we’d of hired that American and trained them.
- scarface74 6y ago
  And as soon as that person got trained, they would jump ship.
throwaway537383 6y ago
Talent shortage is real, but it's not because people can pass the SV interviews. Blind is full of stories of people who go on to work at a FAANG after a few months of LC. Proper education has nothing to do with it - the way hiring is done by them has been cracked years ago (there are even books about it). It's because most companies don't like to train and they want to pay pennies to new engineers. I am an immigrant myself, but I don't think the US gets anything for free when it gets an educated H1B. It's a trade off, you get more opportunities than any other country can give you. It's up to you to be able to identify them. H1B fraud is pervasive at this point and it needs a major reform. I have friends who work in immigration and it's obvious that some schools in India (JNTU for instance) are diploma mills that teaches nothing and ends up with people who should never have a degree to begin with. They exist just to ship people to the US through networking. Then there is the fraud where people from different countries come do their masters at Maharishi International University (or similar) and, once again,study nothing and get a degree. Finally the cherry on top is a lot of the people who were in H1Bs become rich by creating staffing companies bringing more H1Bs and paying them pennies. The government only does a bit of enforcement really. One of the few good things Trump did was to enforce the rules more. Most H1Bs need a lot of training to be productive. I have worked with many. The H1B program - when it comes to STEM - was created to bring very educated people (think top universities with good grades, IIT and similar). Unfortunately, the many who should not have gotten one in the first place, create the problems for the ones who should truly qualify to get an H1B.

mobilefriendly 6y ago

Agree 100%. The reason is that the big tech contractors hire legions of H1-B visa holders (and lobbyists to protect the H1-B program). These workers are paid less than Americans and are tightly bound to their employer-- they risking losing their US status and will eventually be deported if they lose their jobs. Its another way corporate America uses the political system to abuse American workers, create a compliant workforce that can't easily get hired away. It limits opportunity here.

oneplane 6y ago
That's a nice fantasy, but the intended usage of H1-B is still in effect: there are plenty of americans that simply do not have the skill for the job, or that do not want to do the job. Of course the system gets abused, that's par for the course in the united states with all the lobbying. But that doesn't mean that a company is going to suddenly use non-existent local workforce to do the job. At the same time, if it really was just displacing locals for profit, that same could probably be done by just moving an entire department out of the country. There is only one real way to resolve it effectively: be the better option. If you are trying to apply some weird protectionism construction instead of simply being the best option, it just ends up hurting everyone.
- peteradio 6y ago
  > be the better option When I say jump you say how high!
- unishark 6y ago
  They will want to do the job if it pays better. Others will want to go to school to earn the skills. It's just supply and demand. It strikes me as silly that it's next to impossible for an average STEM grad in the US to actually pass the interview process at most of our largest tech companies. Why are they here then, other than to drive up the cost of SV real estate. Why would offshoring the department hurt everyone though? Does "everyone" only count US residents?
  - 6y ago

mountainboot 6y ago

Agreed. Facing layoffs at my current employer, have found it tough to land a new job. There is no "skills shortage", just a desire for cheap labor.

amir734jj 6y ago

It shows you have no clue about the system. In my medium-size company, good luck finding an American to be a system support engineer or be on the call late night when things go wrong. The company will go bankrupt. America relies on cheap foreign workers in every aspect of society.

dropit_sphere 6y ago
Why do I care about the welfare of a company that wouldn't pay me enough to be a support engineer?
- amir734jj 6y ago
  That's a great point. I agree. But it's an unfortunate reality.
sudosysgen 6y ago
I'd be willing to be on call late at night, and/or be a systems support engineer, but the pay needs to be commensurate
scarface74 6y ago
What are the chances that your company doesn’t pay enough to make it worth it? I know that the major cloud providers pay Technical Account Managers or the equivalent enough to get Americans to be at an enterprise’s beckon call day or night. You can’t tell me that you couldn’t get a qualified Americans for 70% of what the major cloud providers pay.

Bhilai 6y ago

I am an immigrant and I work in tech, if you are an American who can do what I do then based on my interview experiences, you ll have no trouble finding jobs in the tech industry. No advanced degrees required. Immigrants on my team work hand in hand with Americans to do great work and we believe in the value an individual provides not where they come from.