4 ms·

Was going to say something along this line. Is disheartening to live in a first world country (center of Berlin) that happens to have the strongest economy in t

by koevet 6y ago

Was going to say something along this line. Is disheartening to live in a first world country (center of Berlin) that happens to have the strongest economy in the Euro zone, and have such a slow internet that I can't even watch Netflix after 8 Pm (and having to pay 50 euro/month)

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
laughs in gigabit fiber for 10 euro/month in Eastern Europe The reason why you're in this situation is that under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business.[1] And also, in present times, German politicians still don't see the value the internet brings to a country so it was never a priority. Some even have employees print them pages off the internet so they can read them in paper form. For them, the backbone of German economy is IG Metall factories so they never understand how could one ever make money with the internet. As proof of this all one has to do is look at the DAX and see that none of the companies there bar SAP are software companies. I see this as a mentality problem in German leadership, as it's only two big fintech companies, Wirecard and N26, are bombing hard while competitors from Sweden and the UK like Klarna and Monzo are flourishing. And I'm sure the engineers in Germany are just as good as the ones in Sweden and the UK. [1]https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/deutschland-warum-unsere-handynetze-so-schlecht-sind-kolumne-a-1297362.html https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/deutschland-warum-unsere...
- lioeters 6y ago
  > ..under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business. Such abuse of public position ought to be a criminal offence - they profited at the cost of setting the country back a decade (or more!) in terms of modern infrastructure. Ubiquitous, fast, and maybe even free Internet - it seems logical and obvious that this is the ideal we should be moving towards, to benefit the whole country/world and future generations.
  - ArmandGrillet 6y ago
    Just to name and shame, Christian Schwarz-Schilling was the minister of infrastructure at the time. Despite his actions and reputation, he never had to go to court and seems to be currently enjoying retirement.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      It wouldn't be the first time Germany got shafted by a politician from Austria ;)
  - manquer 6y ago
    if you think this is bad look at Australia handling of their NBN.
- riffraff 6y ago
  what's wrong with N26? It seemed to be doing fine last time I checked.
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    currently doing their best trying to avoid their workers unionizing
    - riffraff 6y ago
      that's interesting, but I'm not sure it goes as an explanation of "bombing hard".
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  If it’ll make you feel better, Maggie Thatcher killed-off the UK’s then-nationalised BT’s plans for nationwide FTTP in the late-1980s because it was anti-competitive to the nascent cablecos who were busy carving up our pavement (sidewalks) laying coax: https://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784 https://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost...
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    At least the present UK is doing much better than Germany in terms of government digitalization, successful software companies and fiber internet.
  - ferongr 6y ago
    Seems like the UK was spared from the crappiness that is FTTP. Relying on ancient copper for the last 50-300 meters sucks, and the issues that plagued ADSL are still present.
- petra 6y ago
  It's not like more fiber will change Germany's sucsess in building software companies. I'm sure the issue is much more complex than that.
  - nix23 6y ago
    Not much, pay the talents the right amount of money, make it easy for Startups, invest in European technologies and also produce them here, slim down the bureaucracy and the taxes for startups/spinoffs.
    - petra 6y ago
      I agree with alot of those reasons, but Everywhere, People at startups earn less and work harder, for having an option of growth: stocks, job advancement, possibly better skills, etc. How is the situation in Germany different ?
      - nix23 6y ago
        >slim down the bureaucracy and the taxes for startups/spinoffs. It's the opposite of what i wrote (eg massive bureaucracy, "normal" taxes) ;)
- usrusr 6y ago
  It's not just copper vs fiber though: by the time of reunification West Germany was already mostly done with the transition from cheap overhead wiring to the luxury of invisible (and storm-proof) underground cables. A return to putting up poles would have felt like the cliche of a failing businessman telling his trophy wife that they can't afford the country club membership anymore. Its much harder to give up an expensive habit than to never start. I'm sure that there are "underground wiring" countries with widespread fiber deployment and that Germany is doing worse than those, but comparisons to places where overhead is still accepted are skewed.

by koevet 6y ago

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

laughs in gigabit fiber for 10 euro/month in Eastern Europe The reason why you're in this situation is that under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business.[1] And also, in present times, German politicians still don't see the value the internet brings to a country so it was never a priority. Some even have employees print them pages off the internet so they can read them in paper form. For them, the backbone of German economy is IG Metall factories so they never understand how could one ever make money with the internet. As proof of this all one has to do is look at the DAX and see that none of the companies there bar SAP are software companies. I see this as a mentality problem in German leadership, as it's only two big fintech companies, Wirecard and N26, are bombing hard while competitors from Sweden and the UK like Klarna and Monzo are flourishing. And I'm sure the engineers in Germany are just as good as the ones in Sweden and the UK. [1]https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/deutschland-warum-unsere-handynetze-so-schlecht-sind-kolumne-a-1297362.html https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/deutschland-warum-unsere...

lioeters 6y ago
> ..under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business. Such abuse of public position ought to be a criminal offence - they profited at the cost of setting the country back a decade (or more!) in terms of modern infrastructure. Ubiquitous, fast, and maybe even free Internet - it seems logical and obvious that this is the ideal we should be moving towards, to benefit the whole country/world and future generations.
- ArmandGrillet 6y ago
  Just to name and shame, Christian Schwarz-Schilling was the minister of infrastructure at the time. Despite his actions and reputation, he never had to go to court and seems to be currently enjoying retirement.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    It wouldn't be the first time Germany got shafted by a politician from Austria ;)
- manquer 6y ago
  if you think this is bad look at Australia handling of their NBN.
riffraff 6y ago
what's wrong with N26? It seemed to be doing fine last time I checked.
- Semaphor 6y ago
  currently doing their best trying to avoid their workers unionizing
  - riffraff 6y ago
    that's interesting, but I'm not sure it goes as an explanation of "bombing hard".
DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
If it’ll make you feel better, Maggie Thatcher killed-off the UK’s then-nationalised BT’s plans for nationwide FTTP in the late-1980s because it was anti-competitive to the nascent cablecos who were busy carving up our pavement (sidewalks) laying coax: https://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784 https://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost...
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  At least the present UK is doing much better than Germany in terms of government digitalization, successful software companies and fiber internet.
- ferongr 6y ago
  Seems like the UK was spared from the crappiness that is FTTP. Relying on ancient copper for the last 50-300 meters sucks, and the issues that plagued ADSL are still present.
petra 6y ago
It's not like more fiber will change Germany's sucsess in building software companies. I'm sure the issue is much more complex than that.
- nix23 6y ago
  Not much, pay the talents the right amount of money, make it easy for Startups, invest in European technologies and also produce them here, slim down the bureaucracy and the taxes for startups/spinoffs.
  - petra 6y ago
    I agree with alot of those reasons, but Everywhere, People at startups earn less and work harder, for having an option of growth: stocks, job advancement, possibly better skills, etc. How is the situation in Germany different ?
    - nix23 6y ago
      >slim down the bureaucracy and the taxes for startups/spinoffs. It's the opposite of what i wrote (eg massive bureaucracy, "normal" taxes) ;)
usrusr 6y ago
It's not just copper vs fiber though: by the time of reunification West Germany was already mostly done with the transition from cheap overhead wiring to the luxury of invisible (and storm-proof) underground cables. A return to putting up poles would have felt like the cliche of a failing businessman telling his trophy wife that they can't afford the country club membership anymore. Its much harder to give up an expensive habit than to never start. I'm sure that there are "underground wiring" countries with widespread fiber deployment and that Germany is doing worse than those, but comparisons to places where overhead is still accepted are skewed.