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> The funny thing is that people who want to get rid of marriage as a legal concept seem to pipe up almost exclusively in discussions about gay marriage. If Ei

> The funny thing is that people who want to get rid of marriage as a legal concept seem to pipe up almost exclusively in discussions about gay marriage. If Eich had donated money towards an organization that opposes marriages of more than two people, so this discussion had been about those types of relationships instead, I would have brought forward the same arguments. But I have the feeling that Eich wouldn't had lost its job in that case in the first place. > Why do you think this idea is relevant here? It's only relevant if you want to argue that gay marriages shouldn't be legally recognized because no marriages should be legally recognized No my take is: Either make all relationships legal (of course as long as none of the participants are exploited), if you insist on keeping marriages as a legal concept. Or, preferably, get rid of marriages altogether from the states point of view, since this is much more efficient and practical.

foldr 6y ago
It seems to me you are just introducing lots of distractions and hypotheticals to avoid saying anything specific about gay marriage. I'm married to another man. Do you think my marriage should be legally recognized or not?
- wander_homer 6y ago
  Like I said, I'm fine with any partnership being able to enter a legally recognized marriage, if its 7 men, two siblings, man and woman, three man and three women, ... if the state provides marriage within its legal system. So yes, if a man and woman can get a legally recognized marriage in your country then your marriage should be legalized as well. But I'd much rather prefer it for the state not to have such a stupid system in the first place, so marriage becomes a purely private matter.
  - foldr 6y ago
    I think you're saying that you're ok with gay marriage if gay marriage is legal, which kind of doges the main question of whether or not it should be legal. I'd find your opposition to the legal recognition of any marriages more credible if you divorced your wife in solidarity :)
    - wander_homer 6y ago
      > I think you're saying that you're ok with gay marriage if gay marriage is legal, which kind of doges the main question of whether or not it should be legal. No, again: If opposite-sex marriage is legal, then I think any other type of partnership should be allowed to become married as well, whether its same-sex with two men, 20 women, a whole family, ... > I'd find your opposition to the legal recognition of any marriages more credible if you divorced your wife in solidarity :) Why do you assume I'm married to a woman? I'm married because we get the most benefits out of it and my partner is kind of sentimental and has a different opinion about that topic, so I'm doing them a favor as well. Like with every other human being, my views and actions aren't always consistent. For example I also don't like child labour, but here I am typing this on a machine that likely made quite a few children suffer.
      - foldr 6y ago
        I assume you're married to a woman (or a man, if you're a woman) because you responded negatively to a comment that said voting for prop 8 wasn't an action that was harmful to gay people. If you are in fact in a same sex relationship, then shame on you.
        wander_homer 6y ago
        > I assume you're married to a woman (or a man, if you're a woman) because you responded negatively to a comment that said voting for prop 8 wasn't an action that was harmful to gay people. I didn't respond negatively to that comment. I provided an explanation, that those people who object to the idea of gay marriage do the same thing as almost everyone else, even many who are in favor of gay marriage: They have a certain image or ideal in their head, of how a marriage has to look like, and everything that doesn't fit that image feels wrong to them and shouldn't be legal. Hence almost everyone wants to exclude certain types of relationships from getting married. I explicitly focused on that argument: > They very explicitly wanted to take a right away from other people, even though they suffered no plausible harm from those people exercising that right. from the comment, which IMHO is a misleading argument, since I don't believe that many gay marriage supporters take it seriously. So you should finally answer my question, so I know where you stand: Do you believe that that argument is valid, i.e. are you also fine with a mother (50) marrying her son (30) or 12 people getting married? According to that argument it should be legal as well, since they don't harm anyone, but I have a strong feeling that even most gay marriage proponents wouldn't support such a type of marriage. So they're line would just be somewhere else.

foldr 6y ago

It seems to me you are just introducing lots of distractions and hypotheticals to avoid saying anything specific about gay marriage. I'm married to another man. Do you think my marriage should be legally recognized or not?

wander_homer 6y ago
Like I said, I'm fine with any partnership being able to enter a legally recognized marriage, if its 7 men, two siblings, man and woman, three man and three women, ... if the state provides marriage within its legal system. So yes, if a man and woman can get a legally recognized marriage in your country then your marriage should be legalized as well. But I'd much rather prefer it for the state not to have such a stupid system in the first place, so marriage becomes a purely private matter.
- foldr 6y ago
  I think you're saying that you're ok with gay marriage if gay marriage is legal, which kind of doges the main question of whether or not it should be legal. I'd find your opposition to the legal recognition of any marriages more credible if you divorced your wife in solidarity :)
  - wander_homer 6y ago
    > I think you're saying that you're ok with gay marriage if gay marriage is legal, which kind of doges the main question of whether or not it should be legal. No, again: If opposite-sex marriage is legal, then I think any other type of partnership should be allowed to become married as well, whether its same-sex with two men, 20 women, a whole family, ... > I'd find your opposition to the legal recognition of any marriages more credible if you divorced your wife in solidarity :) Why do you assume I'm married to a woman? I'm married because we get the most benefits out of it and my partner is kind of sentimental and has a different opinion about that topic, so I'm doing them a favor as well. Like with every other human being, my views and actions aren't always consistent. For example I also don't like child labour, but here I am typing this on a machine that likely made quite a few children suffer.
    - foldr 6y ago
      I assume you're married to a woman (or a man, if you're a woman) because you responded negatively to a comment that said voting for prop 8 wasn't an action that was harmful to gay people. If you are in fact in a same sex relationship, then shame on you.
      - wander_homer 6y ago
        > I assume you're married to a woman (or a man, if you're a woman) because you responded negatively to a comment that said voting for prop 8 wasn't an action that was harmful to gay people. I didn't respond negatively to that comment. I provided an explanation, that those people who object to the idea of gay marriage do the same thing as almost everyone else, even many who are in favor of gay marriage: They have a certain image or ideal in their head, of how a marriage has to look like, and everything that doesn't fit that image feels wrong to them and shouldn't be legal. Hence almost everyone wants to exclude certain types of relationships from getting married. I explicitly focused on that argument: > They very explicitly wanted to take a right away from other people, even though they suffered no plausible harm from those people exercising that right. from the comment, which IMHO is a misleading argument, since I don't believe that many gay marriage supporters take it seriously. So you should finally answer my question, so I know where you stand: Do you believe that that argument is valid, i.e. are you also fine with a mother (50) marrying her son (30) or 12 people getting married? According to that argument it should be legal as well, since they don't harm anyone, but I have a strong feeling that even most gay marriage proponents wouldn't support such a type of marriage. So they're line would just be somewhere else.