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Successfully trying to rig an election by killing a constitutionally guaranteed service that the government itself is responsible for? What would you call that

by booi 6y ago

ojbyrne 6y ago
Assuming you’re talking about USPS, “successfully” seems premature.
donatj 6y ago
Trying to do an election by mail, last minute, when we haven’t really any infrastructure in place to prevent mass mail-in fraud seems just as much a vector for rigging to me.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  > mass mail-in fraud Source?
  - xaqfox 6y ago
    How many sources would you expect if there is no possible way to detect the fraud, unless the perpetrator confesses to committing it? Previously mail-in ballots were generally limited to specific conditions in order to limit the effectiveness and opportunity of this type of fraud (e.g. coercion and voting for others). That said and in my opinion it should be left up to the states to decide, but I also think there are better alternatives to limit the spread of covid (e.g. early voting by letter of last name; increased number in general and availability of outdoor polling locations; drive-thru polling locations; ticketing system where they message you when you are next or near next in line). I would also agree with federal grants to states to help fund such initiatives that actually provide a way to limit these types voting fraud that mail-in ballots do not.
- nouveaux 6y ago
  "Trying to do an election by mail, last minute" It seems like you're implying that there is some negligence or conspiracy. No one could have predicted that United State's Covid response would be so poor. That realization only came about in May when we tried to reopen too early. Mail was delivering fine 6 months ago. Can you cite any sources that study the infrastructure problems of the USPS?
  - donatj 6y ago
    It’s not a USPS infrastructure problem, it’s a verification infrastructure problem. At least in my state, the only identity verification is a. the ballot is delivered to your registered address and b. you sign it. I for example could easily vote for my invalid parent. Would you trust someone signing into your server where the only verification was a password you mailed to their house unencrypted?
    - aww_dang 6y ago
      Many states provide voter registration data to the public. Typically a birth date is included. If you calculate the age of some of the registered voters it would not be unreasonable to assume that they are deceased. I found some registered voters who were in excess of 140+ years old. If the proposed solution is to mail ballots to each registered voter at their last known home address, people who have moved without updating their voter registration may also be an issue. Given the above, I don't think it is unreasonable to have concerns about this process. That said, perhaps there is an alternative method to proceed if voting in-person is deemed unacceptable.
    - nouveaux 6y ago
      I dont disagree with you on the validation. Lets be honest though. The validation hasn't been a problem with prior vote by mail. In person voting isn't exactly foolproof either. We definitely have a much higher standard when working with our servers than voting. I mean that from a security standpoint and ease of use.

Successfully trying to rig an election by killing a constitutionally guaranteed service that the government itself is responsible for? What would you call that

by booi 6y ago

Successfully trying to rig an election by killing a constitutionally guaranteed service that the government itself is responsible for? What would you call that

ojbyrne 6y ago

Assuming you’re talking about USPS, “successfully” seems premature.

donatj 6y ago

Trying to do an election by mail, last minute, when we haven’t really any infrastructure in place to prevent mass mail-in fraud seems just as much a vector for rigging to me.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
> mass mail-in fraud Source?
- xaqfox 6y ago
  How many sources would you expect if there is no possible way to detect the fraud, unless the perpetrator confesses to committing it? Previously mail-in ballots were generally limited to specific conditions in order to limit the effectiveness and opportunity of this type of fraud (e.g. coercion and voting for others). That said and in my opinion it should be left up to the states to decide, but I also think there are better alternatives to limit the spread of covid (e.g. early voting by letter of last name; increased number in general and availability of outdoor polling locations; drive-thru polling locations; ticketing system where they message you when you are next or near next in line). I would also agree with federal grants to states to help fund such initiatives that actually provide a way to limit these types voting fraud that mail-in ballots do not.
nouveaux 6y ago
"Trying to do an election by mail, last minute" It seems like you're implying that there is some negligence or conspiracy. No one could have predicted that United State's Covid response would be so poor. That realization only came about in May when we tried to reopen too early. Mail was delivering fine 6 months ago. Can you cite any sources that study the infrastructure problems of the USPS?
- donatj 6y ago
  It’s not a USPS infrastructure problem, it’s a verification infrastructure problem. At least in my state, the only identity verification is a. the ballot is delivered to your registered address and b. you sign it. I for example could easily vote for my invalid parent. Would you trust someone signing into your server where the only verification was a password you mailed to their house unencrypted?
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    Many states provide voter registration data to the public. Typically a birth date is included. If you calculate the age of some of the registered voters it would not be unreasonable to assume that they are deceased. I found some registered voters who were in excess of 140+ years old. If the proposed solution is to mail ballots to each registered voter at their last known home address, people who have moved without updating their voter registration may also be an issue. Given the above, I don't think it is unreasonable to have concerns about this process. That said, perhaps there is an alternative method to proceed if voting in-person is deemed unacceptable.
  - nouveaux 6y ago
    I dont disagree with you on the validation. Lets be honest though. The validation hasn't been a problem with prior vote by mail. In person voting isn't exactly foolproof either. We definitely have a much higher standard when working with our servers than voting. I mean that from a security standpoint and ease of use.