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A large element of factorio is that as you scale up, you generate more pollution, and then slaughter the native population of the planet because they try and st

A large element of factorio is that as you scale up, you generate more pollution, and then slaughter the native population of the planet because they try and stop you from destroying their world. It's an aspect of the game I think most doesn't seem to give a lot of thought.

pm90 6y ago
I think this is the most brilliant aspects of the game. Throughout history, colonization has always required the demonization of the colonized people. Savages, barbarians, white mans burden etc. Now a typical factorio player would be aghast for murdering humanoids to take over their resources ( or maybe they wouldn’t? Could be an interesting mod!). But we know those slimy brainless insects are just reactive monsters. But even more... if you play the game, the early waves of the natives can actually do a lot of damage if you aren’t too careful, and can even kill ya. So the game instructs you to absolutely hate these creatures and to fear them. And when you finally build a base large enough to defend itself from hordes and hordes of natives, you feel rather proud, rather than feeling aghast at the carnage. There is a visceral hatred the game has taught you for these “enemies”.
m463 6y ago
I haven't gotten that far. you can make a lot of the stuff cleaner. I think mining makes pollution, I don't know if the modules will curtail that. But I don't think nuclear or solar+accumulators generate pollution.
avalys 6y ago
Well, let’s not get carried away here. The “native population” are bugs and worms and there is no indication in the game that they’re sentient.
- Waterluvian 6y ago
  I hear you. I agree. But I also see the concerning potential for ignorance and parallel to new world problems. They look different. They’re inferior. I don’t see any sign of high intelligence.
  - avalys 6y ago
    Is this something you struggle with when you find ants in your kitchen?
    - Meph504 6y ago
      If ants were able to determine that you and your efforts were causing pollution, and could understand that it was you doing it, then organize in mass to attack you to stop it, and when their efforts weren't effective evolve new forms of themselves solely to stop you, I certainly think I would give pause when seeing them in my kitchen, wouldn't you?
      - roel_v 6y ago
        There is no indication in factorio this is what's happening. Maybe they just instinctively attack pollution because it smells bad to then without knowing higher level implications of it.
        fallenasleep 6y ago
        They aren't actual animals that we have to approach scientifically; it's better to look at them through a literary lense. I personally assumed they were intelligent. I thought the game was making an attempt to draw parallels to the way real life colonialists dehumanazed the native people. You could definitely read them as being more inspired by scifi aliens like the zerg, though. It is a very common trope for zerg/flood/bugger style aliens to be initially percieved as lacking higher intelligence, but twist they're actually as smart or smarter than humans. But that's not necessarily the case in factorio (afaik, I never got to the endgame). If they aren't intelligent, how does that cast the player's actions? I guess it puts you more in the role of being harassed by wolves?
        roel_v 6y ago
        shrug Sure I guess one can take any interpretation. My point was more that I think it doesn't make any sense to do so. I've played hundreds of games over the years where you kill, murder and maim humans (and animals, and alien life forms). I just don't think there's any interesting philosophical consquence to it, nor any interesting parallels to real life behaviour. Iirc correctly there is a factorio blig post somewhere about this exact topic, with the original author basically saying 'meh it's just a game mechanic'. Then again, there's the stardew valley author removing pig butchering from the game for sort of similar concerns, so what do I know.
- booleandilemma 6y ago
  And they’re unemployable, unfortunately.
- mvn9 6y ago
  >because they try and stop you from destroying their world. Why would they try and stop you if they weren't sentient? In that game, how many players would stop if the native population were humanoid? If they were humans? If they would exactly look like the player? How many players leave some place for them to roam? Building machines is addictive. And like any addiction, there is nothing stopping it. We should be carried away because one day in the not so far future, somebody has to decide if energy is spent on food production or on mining for bitcoins or some form of product development simulation or calculation. Do we want to have the global ethics that choose the food?
  - kortilla 6y ago
    > Why would they try and stop you if they weren't sentient? Are mosquitoes sentient?
vbezhenar 6y ago
I'm walling spawners with a 8-squares thick wall. Now they can't spawn resistance forces and will just absorb pollution.

pm90 6y ago

I think this is the most brilliant aspects of the game. Throughout history, colonization has always required the demonization of the colonized people. Savages, barbarians, white mans burden etc. Now a typical factorio player would be aghast for murdering humanoids to take over their resources ( or maybe they wouldn’t? Could be an interesting mod!). But we know those slimy brainless insects are just reactive monsters. But even more... if you play the game, the early waves of the natives can actually do a lot of damage if you aren’t too careful, and can even kill ya. So the game instructs you to absolutely hate these creatures and to fear them. And when you finally build a base large enough to defend itself from hordes and hordes of natives, you feel rather proud, rather than feeling aghast at the carnage. There is a visceral hatred the game has taught you for these “enemies”.

m463 6y ago

I haven't gotten that far. you can make a lot of the stuff cleaner. I think mining makes pollution, I don't know if the modules will curtail that. But I don't think nuclear or solar+accumulators generate pollution.

avalys 6y ago

Well, let’s not get carried away here. The “native population” are bugs and worms and there is no indication in the game that they’re sentient.

Waterluvian 6y ago
I hear you. I agree. But I also see the concerning potential for ignorance and parallel to new world problems. They look different. They’re inferior. I don’t see any sign of high intelligence.
- avalys 6y ago
  Is this something you struggle with when you find ants in your kitchen?
  - Meph504 6y ago
    If ants were able to determine that you and your efforts were causing pollution, and could understand that it was you doing it, then organize in mass to attack you to stop it, and when their efforts weren't effective evolve new forms of themselves solely to stop you, I certainly think I would give pause when seeing them in my kitchen, wouldn't you?
    - roel_v 6y ago
      There is no indication in factorio this is what's happening. Maybe they just instinctively attack pollution because it smells bad to then without knowing higher level implications of it.
      - fallenasleep 6y ago
        They aren't actual animals that we have to approach scientifically; it's better to look at them through a literary lense. I personally assumed they were intelligent. I thought the game was making an attempt to draw parallels to the way real life colonialists dehumanazed the native people. You could definitely read them as being more inspired by scifi aliens like the zerg, though. It is a very common trope for zerg/flood/bugger style aliens to be initially percieved as lacking higher intelligence, but twist they're actually as smart or smarter than humans. But that's not necessarily the case in factorio (afaik, I never got to the endgame). If they aren't intelligent, how does that cast the player's actions? I guess it puts you more in the role of being harassed by wolves?
        roel_v 6y ago
        shrug Sure I guess one can take any interpretation. My point was more that I think it doesn't make any sense to do so. I've played hundreds of games over the years where you kill, murder and maim humans (and animals, and alien life forms). I just don't think there's any interesting philosophical consquence to it, nor any interesting parallels to real life behaviour. Iirc correctly there is a factorio blig post somewhere about this exact topic, with the original author basically saying 'meh it's just a game mechanic'. Then again, there's the stardew valley author removing pig butchering from the game for sort of similar concerns, so what do I know.
booleandilemma 6y ago
And they’re unemployable, unfortunately.
mvn9 6y ago
>because they try and stop you from destroying their world. Why would they try and stop you if they weren't sentient? In that game, how many players would stop if the native population were humanoid? If they were humans? If they would exactly look like the player? How many players leave some place for them to roam? Building machines is addictive. And like any addiction, there is nothing stopping it. We should be carried away because one day in the not so far future, somebody has to decide if energy is spent on food production or on mining for bitcoins or some form of product development simulation or calculation. Do we want to have the global ethics that choose the food?
- kortilla 6y ago
  > Why would they try and stop you if they weren't sentient? Are mosquitoes sentient?

vbezhenar 6y ago

I'm walling spawners with a 8-squares thick wall. Now they can't spawn resistance forces and will just absorb pollution.