6 ms·

I really like the idea of Montessori, and if I have the cash I'd like to send my future kids there someday. That being said, I see correlation here, not causat

by ziadbc 16y ago

I really like the idea of Montessori, and if I have the cash I'd like to send my future kids there someday. That being said, I see correlation here, not causation. To be a little bit tongue and cheek, I could write the headline: "99% of successful people do not attend Montessori schools"

mortenjorck 16y ago
"Ironically, the Montessori educational approach might be the surest route to joining the creative elite, which are so overrepresented by the school’s alumni that one might suspect a Montessori Mafia: Google’s founders Larry Page and Sergei Brin, Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, videogame pioneer Will Wright, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, not to mention Julia Child and rapper Sean “P.Diddy” Combs." "The creative elite" -> "so overrepresented" -> list of five names in tech, one rapper, one 20th Century culinary master I stopped taking the article seriously at this point.
- mrtron 16y ago
  s/rapper/$475 million businessman
  - SwellJoe 16y ago
    Which, when you realize that most working musicians make less from their music than they would make doing a full-time minimum wage job, is perhaps even more impressive. Even successful musicians are rarely rich by Silicon Valley standards.
    - dman 16y ago
      Most Silicon Valley entrepreneurs are rarely rich by Silicon Valley standards.
      - SwellJoe 16y ago
        The successful ones often are.
kenjackson 16y ago
The real meat is the 1996 study they mention: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/313/5795/1893.full?ijkey=3UWZqF01vQgbY&keytype=ref&siteid=sci http://www.sciencemag.org/content/313/5795/1893.full?ijkey=3... Although they reference the study in a really odd way: "Neuroscience author Jonah Lehrer cites a 2006 study published in Science that ..." What does Jonah Lehrer have to do with the study? AFAICT absolutely nothing. He appears to be a contributor to the WSJ, but he didn't write the study. And none of the links they present are even to the article where he apparently cites this study. I have no idea why he's mentioned here. Tangent aside, I think that's the real meat.
- teej 16y ago
  You need to go through this link (http://www.montessori-science.org/montessori_science_journal.htm http://www.montessori-science.org/montessori_science_journal...) and click "see article full text" to get access to the study linked above.
jseliger 16y ago
The correlation != causation problem was addressed in this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2416781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2416781 .
araneae 16y ago
You too can cheaply imitate a Montessori school by a)Taking your kid out of public school and b)Encourage your kid to do things he finds interesting with you at home and take him to museums and crap True, it requires a mostly unemployed parent, but Montessori has just discovered how kids learn naturally at a young age. Just like a kid learns a language without having to be formally taught, he learns other things without formal education as well. The older years it's a different story, but there's really no need to pay a ton of money for a Montessori pre-school. Any parent can do it.
- msg 16y ago
  My wife and I are somewhat nervously heading this direction after one year of kindergarten with our autistic son. Homeschooling just seems to be a better fit.
- arn 16y ago
  This is a bit disingenuous. As mentioned in a previous comment, there is a method to Montessori. It's not "let the kids do whatever they want". It is a form of "formal" education and took years of research to come up with. While parents can certainly homeschool, you can't claim it's an equal substitute for Montessori education.
  - araneae 16y ago
    I was challenging that; I think that the reason Montessori kids do better isn't because Montessori is genius, but because it's more in tune with how kids learn naturally. It's more that standard education is bad, not the Montessori is good.
    - arn 16y ago
      But it's still so wrong. Even if we can agree standard education is bad, that doesn't make everything else good by default. Including just "let your kid do things he finds interesting and take him to museums and crap".
      - 16y ago
qaexl 16y ago
Agreed, Black Swan and all. I have two friends who have experience with Montessori, and like you, I'll put together funds to get my future kids in there some day. One of my friends is an Aikidoka. He had started hanging out with some folks who turned out to operate a Montessori school. They liked him enough that they invited him to teach there -- more to expose the kids to different ideas. My friend tells me that there is a selection process involved for the kids, and not all kids can get in. They'd put them in the environment and see how they acted. My friend and those operators are pitching Aikido to the national board as a form of conflict resolution. Which, if you know anything about Aikido, is remarkable. The other friend is the only old man I know who says things like, "I can't wait to see what will happen", and "Using predictive modeling is like driving by looking at the rear view mirror." Most old people I know are quietly staring at death looming in the future. This guy put his son through Montessori. His grandson is now in Montessori, though the daughter-in-law objected at first. From the comments from these two, from the smattering of articles I've read about them, the key behavioral patterning related to startup is the development of gumption. That is, instead of using external reward-punishment and coloring-inside-the-approved-lines, these kids go out and do what they want, using their own internal sense of right and wrong. It's something I've been hacking my own mind with much of my adult life -- through things like playing Go. Does this guarantee these a Montessori grad to be wildly successful at building out a startup? No. But it will save a lot of misery from twisting yourself, cringing from Authority or staying trapped in a losing situation (a la Gervais Principle). That is way better than recruiting Tiger Moms and Dragon Ladies.

by ziadbc 16y ago

mortenjorck 16y ago

"Ironically, the Montessori educational approach might be the surest route to joining the creative elite, which are so overrepresented by the school’s alumni that one might suspect a Montessori Mafia: Google’s founders Larry Page and Sergei Brin, Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, videogame pioneer Will Wright, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, not to mention Julia Child and rapper Sean “P.Diddy” Combs." "The creative elite" -> "so overrepresented" -> list of five names in tech, one rapper, one 20th Century culinary master I stopped taking the article seriously at this point.

mrtron 16y ago
s/rapper/$475 million businessman
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  Which, when you realize that most working musicians make less from their music than they would make doing a full-time minimum wage job, is perhaps even more impressive. Even successful musicians are rarely rich by Silicon Valley standards.
  - dman 16y ago
    Most Silicon Valley entrepreneurs are rarely rich by Silicon Valley standards.
    - SwellJoe 16y ago
      The successful ones often are.

kenjackson 16y ago

The real meat is the 1996 study they mention: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/313/5795/1893.full?ijkey=3UWZqF01vQgbY&keytype=ref&siteid=sci http://www.sciencemag.org/content/313/5795/1893.full?ijkey=3... Although they reference the study in a really odd way: "Neuroscience author Jonah Lehrer cites a 2006 study published in Science that ..." What does Jonah Lehrer have to do with the study? AFAICT absolutely nothing. He appears to be a contributor to the WSJ, but he didn't write the study. And none of the links they present are even to the article where he apparently cites this study. I have no idea why he's mentioned here. Tangent aside, I think that's the real meat.

teej 16y ago
You need to go through this link (http://www.montessori-science.org/montessori_science_journal.htm http://www.montessori-science.org/montessori_science_journal...) and click "see article full text" to get access to the study linked above.

jseliger 16y ago

The correlation != causation problem was addressed in this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2416781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2416781 .

araneae 16y ago

You too can cheaply imitate a Montessori school by a)Taking your kid out of public school and b)Encourage your kid to do things he finds interesting with you at home and take him to museums and crap True, it requires a mostly unemployed parent, but Montessori has just discovered how kids learn naturally at a young age. Just like a kid learns a language without having to be formally taught, he learns other things without formal education as well. The older years it's a different story, but there's really no need to pay a ton of money for a Montessori pre-school. Any parent can do it.

msg 16y ago
My wife and I are somewhat nervously heading this direction after one year of kindergarten with our autistic son. Homeschooling just seems to be a better fit.
arn 16y ago
This is a bit disingenuous. As mentioned in a previous comment, there is a method to Montessori. It's not "let the kids do whatever they want". It is a form of "formal" education and took years of research to come up with. While parents can certainly homeschool, you can't claim it's an equal substitute for Montessori education.
- araneae 16y ago
  I was challenging that; I think that the reason Montessori kids do better isn't because Montessori is genius, but because it's more in tune with how kids learn naturally. It's more that standard education is bad, not the Montessori is good.
  - arn 16y ago
    But it's still so wrong. Even if we can agree standard education is bad, that doesn't make everything else good by default. Including just "let your kid do things he finds interesting and take him to museums and crap".
    - 16y ago

qaexl 16y ago

Agreed, Black Swan and all. I have two friends who have experience with Montessori, and like you, I'll put together funds to get my future kids in there some day. One of my friends is an Aikidoka. He had started hanging out with some folks who turned out to operate a Montessori school. They liked him enough that they invited him to teach there -- more to expose the kids to different ideas. My friend tells me that there is a selection process involved for the kids, and not all kids can get in. They'd put them in the environment and see how they acted. My friend and those operators are pitching Aikido to the national board as a form of conflict resolution. Which, if you know anything about Aikido, is remarkable. The other friend is the only old man I know who says things like, "I can't wait to see what will happen", and "Using predictive modeling is like driving by looking at the rear view mirror." Most old people I know are quietly staring at death looming in the future. This guy put his son through Montessori. His grandson is now in Montessori, though the daughter-in-law objected at first. From the comments from these two, from the smattering of articles I've read about them, the key behavioral patterning related to startup is the development of gumption. That is, instead of using external reward-punishment and coloring-inside-the-approved-lines, these kids go out and do what they want, using their own internal sense of right and wrong. It's something I've been hacking my own mind with much of my adult life -- through things like playing Go. Does this guarantee these a Montessori grad to be wildly successful at building out a startup? No. But it will save a lot of misery from twisting yourself, cringing from Authority or staying trapped in a losing situation (a la Gervais Principle). That is way better than recruiting Tiger Moms and Dragon Ladies.