4 ms·

If anyone ever faces this thought-experiment problem when they leave 37signals, I'll be happy to bestow them a non-managerial fancy title of their choice. If so

by dhh 16y ago

If anyone ever faces this thought-experiment problem when they leave 37signals, I'll be happy to bestow them a non-managerial fancy title of their choice. If someone leaving 37signals thinks they need to have a "Master Programmer" title, they'll get that. Problem solved.

rosenjon 16y ago
I realize that particular suggestion regarding degrees is a little Mickey Mouse. My point was simply that it is quite risky for them to have to rely on your good graces when they leave the organization. What if you're not around to bestow that promised title 10 years from now? What if after a string of successes, that employee makes a mistake and tanks a product, and gets fired on bad terms? This system works fine internally, especially for management. It adds a lot of risk for employees, and that risk escalates the longer they are with the company. I'm not telling you I have the right answer, but I think it's worth considering.
- jzimdars 16y ago
  What's the risk? That I don't take a job sometime in the future from a short-sighted HR drone who can only judge me based on my resumé? If the lack of an archetypal career path on my resumé is a barrier, it's probably not a job worth having.
  - rosenjon 16y ago
    There are a whole host of intangibles that will probably break down by individual employee. An employee may have to move to a different location for personal reasons where the only option is a job that hires via HR drone. A large part of management structure in the first place is to try to insulate the organization against changes at any level. Want to replace the entire C suite and the board? No problem... business goes on as usual. With this structure, the company becomes highly dependent on the people at the very top. Any changes there might have the effect of blowing up the whole organization, because there are only a few people who are unquestionably in charge. I think there are lots of benefits from trying to reshape the corporate org chart, as I mentioned in another post, but it is also dangerous to be overly idealistic in terms of how your employees regard this structure and the risk they place on working under it. If most of them feel its appropriate, then I suppose there is no problem. However, I wouldn't automatically assume that's the case, just because they have chosen to work without a title. Also, a large part of their continued work at the firm may have to do with their relationship with you personally, which may put the long term viability of the business at risk.

by dhh 16y ago

rosenjon 16y ago

I realize that particular suggestion regarding degrees is a little Mickey Mouse. My point was simply that it is quite risky for them to have to rely on your good graces when they leave the organization. What if you're not around to bestow that promised title 10 years from now? What if after a string of successes, that employee makes a mistake and tanks a product, and gets fired on bad terms? This system works fine internally, especially for management. It adds a lot of risk for employees, and that risk escalates the longer they are with the company. I'm not telling you I have the right answer, but I think it's worth considering.

jzimdars 16y ago
What's the risk? That I don't take a job sometime in the future from a short-sighted HR drone who can only judge me based on my resumé? If the lack of an archetypal career path on my resumé is a barrier, it's probably not a job worth having.
- rosenjon 16y ago
  There are a whole host of intangibles that will probably break down by individual employee. An employee may have to move to a different location for personal reasons where the only option is a job that hires via HR drone. A large part of management structure in the first place is to try to insulate the organization against changes at any level. Want to replace the entire C suite and the board? No problem... business goes on as usual. With this structure, the company becomes highly dependent on the people at the very top. Any changes there might have the effect of blowing up the whole organization, because there are only a few people who are unquestionably in charge. I think there are lots of benefits from trying to reshape the corporate org chart, as I mentioned in another post, but it is also dangerous to be overly idealistic in terms of how your employees regard this structure and the risk they place on working under it. If most of them feel its appropriate, then I suppose there is no problem. However, I wouldn't automatically assume that's the case, just because they have chosen to work without a title. Also, a large part of their continued work at the firm may have to do with their relationship with you personally, which may put the long term viability of the business at risk.