6 ms·

Dozens of Montana USPS drop boxes removed

71 points by iron0013 6y ago

pwinnski 6y ago
It could be true that this is the normal cycle of moving boxes from low-use to high-traffic areas, as claimed. Without transparency, it's hard to be sure. Even that transparency would not be demanded were the postmaster general not actively and deliberately taking a role in make USPS services worse. With the status quo, nobody would care about 13 boxes removed in Missoula, Montana. So either the USPS needs to be clear about what they're doing and when and why, or they need to improve service so much that people assume the best, rather than the worst.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  >Without transparency, it's hard to be sure. USPS has a free API that gives you the location of every collection box. I wonder if anyone has been archiving that data over time to compare?
  - privong 6y ago
    > USPS has a free API that gives you the location of every collection box. Do you have a link for this? It would be useful for filling out post box information on openstreetmap, I'd think. I found the USPS "Web Tools API"[0] but it seems to focus on pricing, tracking, and address verification. I didn't see anything about querying USPS locations (except for package pickup). [0] https://www.usps.com/business/web-tools-apis/ https://www.usps.com/business/web-tools-apis/
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      I may have slightly misremembered. I can't find it in their officially documented APIs either. However if you inspect your network traffic while doing a search on their "Find locations" page, it's not too hard to find the address of their REST API. However since it's not documented it might be rude to hit it too hard
  - pwinnski 6y ago
    This is a fantastic idea, and I'm pretty sure that if nobody has been before now, someone will now!
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  If the optics are bad, a sensible thing would be to defer moving the mailboxes until after November 4.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > It could be true that this is the normal cycle of moving boxes from low-use to high-traffic areas, as claimed. Without transparency, it's hard to be sure. Even if that's the true reason for this, this project (and any project that reduces USPS capacity or capabilities) needs to be delayed until after the election to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.
nine_zeros 6y ago
I don't want to think about it but this is a coup not too much unlike Turkey.
- pstuart 6y ago
  Yes, but softer.
gamblor956 6y ago
Normally you could assign an innocuous reason for this, but given the other actions the new postmaster has taken, it's pretty clear that (a) this is part of a plan to reduce mail-in voting, and (b) this is part of a plan to force the privatization of mail delivery services. The new postmaster is major Trump donor/supporter and has a large amount of stock in private mail delivery services. Among other things, he has ordered the removal of most mail-sorting machines and begun requiring that work to be done by hand, while at the same time banning overtime necessary to handle the increased manual work required. This week, he also ordered the press office to tell the states that there was no way the USPS could timely deliver ballots within the normal absentee voting periods or guarantee delivery before Nov 7...even though in many states the period for mailing in an absentee ballot is longer than 4 weeks. For point of reference, prior to the new postmaster, the USPS was regularly able to handle volumes of mail far in excess of what the predicted mail-in vote will be for 2020. [EDIT: link: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/u-s-postal-service-warns-numerous-states-mail-ballots-may-n1236825 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/u-s-postal-se...]
paul_f 6y ago
The US Postal Service adds and moves post boxes all the time. There is no conspiracy here
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  You haven't offered a reason you believe this is one of those cases, as opposed to it being a symptom of the recent USPS issues. Personally, I have no idea based on the information available.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    According to the USPS OIG, it's standard procedure to move or remove boxes that get fewer than 25 pieces of mail per day. When there was an audit a few years ago, they found that no one ever got around to removing 99% of the collection boxes that should've been removed. On the flip side, in some regions management had removed collection boxes without proving that they met the 25/day standard More info here-- https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/collection-box-removal-process-eastern-area https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/collection-box-removal-proc...
- lazyant 6y ago
  What about the removal of sorting machines? or the conflict of interests of the Postmaster General?
RickJWagner 6y ago
Montana is reliably Republican, and has voted so in 9 of the last 10 presidential elections. (1992 was the exception.) If the mailbox removal is part of some sinister plot, it's not the GOP behind it. https://www.270towin.com/states/Montana https://www.270towin.com/states/Montana
- iron0013 6y ago
  Pretty facile analysis. Boxes are being removed from the blue parts of Montana (which definitely do exist, it’s a much more purple state than most people think), and Montana’s senatorial race is close this year. In any case, this is happening largely in blue states, but I knew if I posted a link saying as much it would be immediately flagged on HN, so I posted this one instead.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

71 points by iron0013 6y ago

It could be true that this is the normal cycle of moving boxes from low-use to high-traffic areas, as claimed. Without transparency, it's hard to be sure. Even that transparency would not be demanded were the postmaster general not actively and deliberately taking a role in make USPS services worse. With the status quo, nobody would care about 13 boxes removed in Missoula, Montana. So either the USPS needs to be clear about what they're doing and when and why, or they need to improve service so much that people assume the best, rather than the worst.

Rebelgecko 6y ago
>Without transparency, it's hard to be sure. USPS has a free API that gives you the location of every collection box. I wonder if anyone has been archiving that data over time to compare?
- privong 6y ago
  > USPS has a free API that gives you the location of every collection box. Do you have a link for this? It would be useful for filling out post box information on openstreetmap, I'd think. I found the USPS "Web Tools API"[0] but it seems to focus on pricing, tracking, and address verification. I didn't see anything about querying USPS locations (except for package pickup). [0] https://www.usps.com/business/web-tools-apis/ https://www.usps.com/business/web-tools-apis/
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    I may have slightly misremembered. I can't find it in their officially documented APIs either. However if you inspect your network traffic while doing a search on their "Find locations" page, it's not too hard to find the address of their REST API. However since it's not documented it might be rude to hit it too hard
- pwinnski 6y ago
  This is a fantastic idea, and I'm pretty sure that if nobody has been before now, someone will now!
JKCalhoun 6y ago
If the optics are bad, a sensible thing would be to defer moving the mailboxes until after November 4.
ardy42 6y ago
> It could be true that this is the normal cycle of moving boxes from low-use to high-traffic areas, as claimed. Without transparency, it's hard to be sure. Even if that's the true reason for this, this project (and any project that reduces USPS capacity or capabilities) needs to be delayed until after the election to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

nine_zeros 6y ago

I don't want to think about it but this is a coup not too much unlike Turkey.

pstuart 6y ago
Yes, but softer.

gamblor956 6y ago

Normally you could assign an innocuous reason for this, but given the other actions the new postmaster has taken, it's pretty clear that (a) this is part of a plan to reduce mail-in voting, and (b) this is part of a plan to force the privatization of mail delivery services. The new postmaster is major Trump donor/supporter and has a large amount of stock in private mail delivery services. Among other things, he has ordered the removal of most mail-sorting machines and begun requiring that work to be done by hand, while at the same time banning overtime necessary to handle the increased manual work required. This week, he also ordered the press office to tell the states that there was no way the USPS could timely deliver ballots within the normal absentee voting periods or guarantee delivery before Nov 7...even though in many states the period for mailing in an absentee ballot is longer than 4 weeks. For point of reference, prior to the new postmaster, the USPS was regularly able to handle volumes of mail far in excess of what the predicted mail-in vote will be for 2020. [EDIT: link: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/u-s-postal-service-warns-numerous-states-mail-ballots-may-n1236825 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/u-s-postal-se...]

paul_f 6y ago

The US Postal Service adds and moves post boxes all the time. There is no conspiracy here

happytoexplain 6y ago
You haven't offered a reason you believe this is one of those cases, as opposed to it being a symptom of the recent USPS issues. Personally, I have no idea based on the information available.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  According to the USPS OIG, it's standard procedure to move or remove boxes that get fewer than 25 pieces of mail per day. When there was an audit a few years ago, they found that no one ever got around to removing 99% of the collection boxes that should've been removed. On the flip side, in some regions management had removed collection boxes without proving that they met the 25/day standard More info here-- https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/collection-box-removal-process-eastern-area https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/collection-box-removal-proc...
lazyant 6y ago
What about the removal of sorting machines? or the conflict of interests of the Postmaster General?

RickJWagner 6y ago

Montana is reliably Republican, and has voted so in 9 of the last 10 presidential elections. (1992 was the exception.) If the mailbox removal is part of some sinister plot, it's not the GOP behind it. https://www.270towin.com/states/Montana https://www.270towin.com/states/Montana

iron0013 6y ago
Pretty facile analysis. Boxes are being removed from the blue parts of Montana (which definitely do exist, it’s a much more purple state than most people think), and Montana’s senatorial race is close this year. In any case, this is happening largely in blue states, but I knew if I posted a link saying as much it would be immediately flagged on HN, so I posted this one instead.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]