4 ms·

I’ll bite. Looking in from the outside the US is in terminal decline because it lacks: * a viable education system which has led to the current wave of anti-sc

by c1sc0 6y ago

I’ll bite. Looking in from the outside the US is in terminal decline because it lacks: * a viable education system which has led to the current wave of anti-science sentiment. * a viable healthcare system which is causing people to get in debt over the smallest of medical issues. * a viable political system which represents the will of the people. * a viable economy where the younger generation can expect to do better than their parents.

mc32 6y ago
What are you classifying as “anti-science”. We might have anti-vaxxers and people who are redefining sexes in non biological ways (not saying there isn’t a valid non scientific reason for this), etc., but I don’t think people are anti science. Basic health for people not covered I grant you that is a problem but it’s not a unique one in the world. It does represent the people; however since things are more or less 50:50 but polarized, it’s impossible to please two diametrical sentiments simultaneously. Once your economy is mature one cannot expect to have indefinite growth whereby descendants do better than predecessors. We can teach a better stasis if we don’t allow undermining (like shipping jobs overseas and bringing in low wage workers to upset the economic stasis.
bserge 6y ago
1. Fixable without "the demise of the USA". But it probably won't be, as enough people have good enough education to get by. 2. Again, enough people get by, it'd have to be a majority protesting/rioting for things to change. And they can be changed without the country dying. 3. Not unique to the US, sadly. But the government is nowhere near authoritarian enough for people to risk dying to change it. 4. It's one of the world's biggest and healthiest economies, and it's kind of rare in the whole modern world for the younger generation to do better than their parents. With remote work and automation becoming normal, it may be possible for people to live and work in cheaper places. Even as it is, the US can continue to function for decades, even centuries, more or less. I just don't see it in terminal decline.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  This is exactly it. "Enough people get by.." "just enough are educated..."just barely getting through." More evidence - the era of US exceptionalism is over. > Even as it is, the US can continue to function for decades, even centuries, more or less. I just don't see it in terminal decline. The UK still exists despite the demise of its empire. This is what is implied in the demise of the US as a worldwide force or leader.
  - bserge 6y ago
    > the era of US exceptionalism is over. Yeah, I agree with that. Much of the world has caught up in living standards and opportunities. > demise of the US as a worldwide force or leader. No, the US is still a global player/force and will be for a long time. Its economy alone is enough for that, but they also have ridiculous military capabilities.
neilpanchal 6y ago
Some objective data: Education: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/education/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/education/ US ranks higher than France, New Zealand, Austria, UK but behind large number of EU nations. Health: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/health/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/health/ US ranks 7th after Canada, NZ, Australia, Israel, Ireland and Switzerland. Ahead of Belgium, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Finland, Denmark. Civic Engagement: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/civic-engagement/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/civic-engagement/ US ranks 8th in the world. Jobs/Economy: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/jobs/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/jobs/ US ranks 4th after Iceland, Switzerland, Luxembourg. I think the data shows otherwise. In terms of Jobs and Civic Engagement, EU nations fare pretty poor compared to US. US has a problem with the education system and it should be the top priority.

by c1sc0 6y ago

mc32 6y ago

What are you classifying as “anti-science”. We might have anti-vaxxers and people who are redefining sexes in non biological ways (not saying there isn’t a valid non scientific reason for this), etc., but I don’t think people are anti science. Basic health for people not covered I grant you that is a problem but it’s not a unique one in the world. It does represent the people; however since things are more or less 50:50 but polarized, it’s impossible to please two diametrical sentiments simultaneously. Once your economy is mature one cannot expect to have indefinite growth whereby descendants do better than predecessors. We can teach a better stasis if we don’t allow undermining (like shipping jobs overseas and bringing in low wage workers to upset the economic stasis.

bserge 6y ago

1. Fixable without "the demise of the USA". But it probably won't be, as enough people have good enough education to get by. 2. Again, enough people get by, it'd have to be a majority protesting/rioting for things to change. And they can be changed without the country dying. 3. Not unique to the US, sadly. But the government is nowhere near authoritarian enough for people to risk dying to change it. 4. It's one of the world's biggest and healthiest economies, and it's kind of rare in the whole modern world for the younger generation to do better than their parents. With remote work and automation becoming normal, it may be possible for people to live and work in cheaper places. Even as it is, the US can continue to function for decades, even centuries, more or less. I just don't see it in terminal decline.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
This is exactly it. "Enough people get by.." "just enough are educated..."just barely getting through." More evidence - the era of US exceptionalism is over. > Even as it is, the US can continue to function for decades, even centuries, more or less. I just don't see it in terminal decline. The UK still exists despite the demise of its empire. This is what is implied in the demise of the US as a worldwide force or leader.
- bserge 6y ago
  > the era of US exceptionalism is over. Yeah, I agree with that. Much of the world has caught up in living standards and opportunities. > demise of the US as a worldwide force or leader. No, the US is still a global player/force and will be for a long time. Its economy alone is enough for that, but they also have ridiculous military capabilities.

neilpanchal 6y ago

Some objective data: Education: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/education/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/education/ US ranks higher than France, New Zealand, Austria, UK but behind large number of EU nations. Health: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/health/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/health/ US ranks 7th after Canada, NZ, Australia, Israel, Ireland and Switzerland. Ahead of Belgium, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Finland, Denmark. Civic Engagement: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/civic-engagement/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/civic-engagement/ US ranks 8th in the world. Jobs/Economy: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/jobs/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/jobs/ US ranks 4th after Iceland, Switzerland, Luxembourg. I think the data shows otherwise. In terms of Jobs and Civic Engagement, EU nations fare pretty poor compared to US. US has a problem with the education system and it should be the top priority.