7 ms·

Trump’s executive order for the latest stimulus. The stimulus programs are clearly legislative, and as such are constitutionally the duty of congress. He even w

by kolbe 6y ago

Trump’s executive order for the latest stimulus. The stimulus programs are clearly legislative, and as such are constitutionally the duty of congress. He even watched congress debate and negotiate a stimulus package, didn’t like their result, and with an unconstitutional EO, spent a trillion dollars. The choices to disallow religions institutions from congregating while allowing BLM protests seems like it’s a ploy to suppress religion and not an effort to protect people as well.

dwater 6y ago
The BLM protests are all outdoors and have not been shown to be superspreader events. Church services held indoors have been shown many times to be superspreader events. Your argument that any government anywhere in the US tried to use the pandemic to suppress religion is not supported by the evidence. https://www.click2houston.com/health/2020/05/29/what-are-covid-19-super-spreaders-and-why-are-church-choir-lofts-on-the-list/ https://www.click2houston.com/health/2020/05/29/what-are-cov... https://www.businessinsider.com/church-oregon-largest-coronavirus-outbreak-superspreading-2020-6?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/church-oregon-largest-corona... https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2020/08/04/jacksonville-church-members-experienced-covid-19-symptoms-before-florida-reported-its-1st-cases/ https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2020/08/04/jacksonville-chur... https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/health/ohio-church-coronavirus-spread/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/health/ohio-church-coronaviru...
- kolbe 6y ago
  It takes a very partisan mind, IMO, to not see that yelling in dense outdoor crowds is nearly as dangerous as singing in a large building with 50 foot ceilings.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Even if we find out that being in a church has zero risk, asking a church to follow building occupancy regulations is still constitutional. Building codes are precautionary, and they apply to buildings, which are in no way related or predicated on any regulations that apply to standing in the middle of a street. Constitutionality aside, I don't think the current scientific consensus supports your opinion about risk either. Buildings recirculate their air, 50ft ceiling or not.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago
  Yes people bunched up and sweating all over each other and yelling is not a superspreader event. This reminds me of the same braindead talking points people would trot out about masks not working because the "experts" said so. Now the same people are mindlessly saying that masks are a panacea and should be mandatory in all environments regardless of the context. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-06/want-to-avoid-virus-forget-face-masks-top-airline-doctor-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-06/want-to-a...
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    > Yes people bunched up and sweating all over each other and yelling is not a superspreader event. Is there evidence that it is you can actually provide?
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Even if it is, you misunderstand the reason for the difference in regulation. Occupancy rules set by local authorities apply to buildings. A church has one, and a protest in the street does not. There are many churches which have worked around the regulations by doing the same -- worshiping outside.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > Yes people bunched up and sweating all over each other and yelling is not a superspreader event. This is a very testable claim. NYC had sustained, massive BLM protests in May/June. Where's the resulting spike in cases?
    - googthrowaway42 6y ago
      Here's Minnesota, home of the BLM protests: Second wave begins within 14 days of the protests and rioting. Remember that there's an incubation period. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situation.html https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situatio...
      - 6y ago
kube-system 6y ago
> with an unconstitutional EO, spent a trillion dollars. Do you have a link? I read about the payroll tax deferral, but haven't heard about this. >The choices to disallow religions institutions from congregating while allowing BLM protests seems like it’s a ploy to suppress religion and not an effort to protect people as well. 1. Actions are not deemed constitutional or unconstitutional in comparison to other actions - they are each compared individually to the requirements outlined in law. Protests and religion have different relevant bodies of case law, and therefore the constitutionality of a limit on each would not be directly comparable. 2. The physical structures that religious institutions build and operate already have to follow other limitations imposed by health and safety laws, this one was no different. An outdoor protest owns no property which would be subject to such regulations in the first place.

by kolbe 6y ago

dwater 6y ago

The BLM protests are all outdoors and have not been shown to be superspreader events. Church services held indoors have been shown many times to be superspreader events. Your argument that any government anywhere in the US tried to use the pandemic to suppress religion is not supported by the evidence. https://www.click2houston.com/health/2020/05/29/what-are-covid-19-super-spreaders-and-why-are-church-choir-lofts-on-the-list/ https://www.click2houston.com/health/2020/05/29/what-are-cov... https://www.businessinsider.com/church-oregon-largest-coronavirus-outbreak-superspreading-2020-6?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/church-oregon-largest-corona... https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2020/08/04/jacksonville-church-members-experienced-covid-19-symptoms-before-florida-reported-its-1st-cases/ https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2020/08/04/jacksonville-chur... https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/health/ohio-church-coronavirus-spread/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/health/ohio-church-coronaviru...

kolbe 6y ago
It takes a very partisan mind, IMO, to not see that yelling in dense outdoor crowds is nearly as dangerous as singing in a large building with 50 foot ceilings.
- kube-system 6y ago
  Even if we find out that being in a church has zero risk, asking a church to follow building occupancy regulations is still constitutional. Building codes are precautionary, and they apply to buildings, which are in no way related or predicated on any regulations that apply to standing in the middle of a street. Constitutionality aside, I don't think the current scientific consensus supports your opinion about risk either. Buildings recirculate their air, 50ft ceiling or not.
googthrowaway42 6y ago
Yes people bunched up and sweating all over each other and yelling is not a superspreader event. This reminds me of the same braindead talking points people would trot out about masks not working because the "experts" said so. Now the same people are mindlessly saying that masks are a panacea and should be mandatory in all environments regardless of the context. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-06/want-to-avoid-virus-forget-face-masks-top-airline-doctor-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-06/want-to-a...
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  > Yes people bunched up and sweating all over each other and yelling is not a superspreader event. Is there evidence that it is you can actually provide?
- kube-system 6y ago
  Even if it is, you misunderstand the reason for the difference in regulation. Occupancy rules set by local authorities apply to buildings. A church has one, and a protest in the street does not. There are many churches which have worked around the regulations by doing the same -- worshiping outside.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > Yes people bunched up and sweating all over each other and yelling is not a superspreader event. This is a very testable claim. NYC had sustained, massive BLM protests in May/June. Where's the resulting spike in cases?
  - googthrowaway42 6y ago
    Here's Minnesota, home of the BLM protests: Second wave begins within 14 days of the protests and rioting. Remember that there's an incubation period. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situation.html https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situatio...
    - 6y ago

kube-system 6y ago

> with an unconstitutional EO, spent a trillion dollars. Do you have a link? I read about the payroll tax deferral, but haven't heard about this. >The choices to disallow religions institutions from congregating while allowing BLM protests seems like it’s a ploy to suppress religion and not an effort to protect people as well. 1. Actions are not deemed constitutional or unconstitutional in comparison to other actions - they are each compared individually to the requirements outlined in law. Protests and religion have different relevant bodies of case law, and therefore the constitutionality of a limit on each would not be directly comparable. 2. The physical structures that religious institutions build and operate already have to follow other limitations imposed by health and safety laws, this one was no different. An outdoor protest owns no property which would be subject to such regulations in the first place.