4 ms·

Google seems to be paying technical writers to build the free (growing) alternative to MDN, https://web.dev https://web.dev. It's not a generalized web resource

Google seems to be paying technical writers to build the free (growing) alternative to MDN, https://web.dev https://web.dev. It's not a generalized web resource yet like MDN, but just wait. Of course, you'll have to accept that the documentation here will likely have a Chrome-centric view of web development, further establishing the Chrome-only version of the web. The loss of MDN will just result in Firefox becoming less relevant. MDN was not just a free resource, it anchored Firefox's relevancy in the web development world. I believe the layoffs of the MDN team is a fairly significant strategic mistake for Mozilla.

speedgoose 6y ago
It looks pretty closed source.
- billyhoffman 6y ago
  Look in the footer. It’s a Creative Commons Attribution license for all web.dev content and Apache 2 for all the code samples. I’m really not sure what else you would ask for here
  - speedgoose 6y ago
    My bad, the code is also on Github. However it's far from a wiki and the process looks boring and cumbersome: https://web.dev/handbook/quick-start/ https://web.dev/handbook/quick-start/
    - paulirish 6y ago
      FWIW, here's a typical edit to an existing article: https://github.com/GoogleChrome/web.dev/pull/3678 https://github.com/GoogleChrome/web.dev/pull/3678
MildlySerious 6y ago
I already don't trust Google with the grip they have on the web. It doesn't seem like a good idea to let them be the ones to foster the next generation of webdevs, and provide the platform for learning and staying on top of things. There is no reason to trust that they will keep it as neutral ground and pay for it without ulterior motive, imo.
paulirish 6y ago
(I'm a googler who works closely with the web.dev team). Google also pays technical writers to contribute to MDN which we consider to be THE destination for reference documentation. Both Google and Microsoft have employed multiple fulltime techwriters to contribute to MDN for the last ~7 years, I believe. We don't consider web.dev to be an alternative to MDN. web.dev doesn't do reference documentation, but rather guides, tutorials, and news. web.dev is developed by the Web DevRel team and you can be sure that everyone working on Web DevRel and Chrome knows the fundamental importance of a diverse browser ecosystem. If there's anything we can do to make web.dev more inclusive, we'd love to hear it.
- jameslk 6y ago
  I have my doubts that MDN will be able to keep receiving the same level of updates with these layoffs. I'd hope they would, but that doesn't seem logical unless either contributions increase from outisde somehow (e.g. Google and Microsoft decides to add more writers for MDN), or GPT-3 starts generating those docs. Now if MDN starts becoming outdated, someone else will fill that void. W3Schools maybe (nobody wants this), but it seems like a better opportunity for Google to swoop in and lead, to further solidify their domination in the browser space. Cynical sounding to you I'm sure, but that seems logical to me from a homo economicus business stance. I'd be happy to hear I'm missing something or wrong in some way so this doesn't happen, since after all, competition is great.
- nojvek 6y ago
  Wow! paulirish on HN. I assume you have the best of intentions, I'm a massive fan of your work on DevTools and web.dev. It's just hard to digest that this will always be the view of Google especially with its ads, search, android and chrome market share (monopoly). Google has conflicting interests and it's hard to digest "Chrome knows the fundamental importance of a diverse browser ecosystem".

speedgoose 6y ago

It looks pretty closed source.

billyhoffman 6y ago
Look in the footer. It’s a Creative Commons Attribution license for all web.dev content and Apache 2 for all the code samples. I’m really not sure what else you would ask for here
- speedgoose 6y ago
  My bad, the code is also on Github. However it's far from a wiki and the process looks boring and cumbersome: https://web.dev/handbook/quick-start/ https://web.dev/handbook/quick-start/
  - paulirish 6y ago
    FWIW, here's a typical edit to an existing article: https://github.com/GoogleChrome/web.dev/pull/3678 https://github.com/GoogleChrome/web.dev/pull/3678

MildlySerious 6y ago

I already don't trust Google with the grip they have on the web. It doesn't seem like a good idea to let them be the ones to foster the next generation of webdevs, and provide the platform for learning and staying on top of things. There is no reason to trust that they will keep it as neutral ground and pay for it without ulterior motive, imo.

paulirish 6y ago

(I'm a googler who works closely with the web.dev team). Google also pays technical writers to contribute to MDN which we consider to be THE destination for reference documentation. Both Google and Microsoft have employed multiple fulltime techwriters to contribute to MDN for the last ~7 years, I believe. We don't consider web.dev to be an alternative to MDN. web.dev doesn't do reference documentation, but rather guides, tutorials, and news. web.dev is developed by the Web DevRel team and you can be sure that everyone working on Web DevRel and Chrome knows the fundamental importance of a diverse browser ecosystem. If there's anything we can do to make web.dev more inclusive, we'd love to hear it.

jameslk 6y ago
I have my doubts that MDN will be able to keep receiving the same level of updates with these layoffs. I'd hope they would, but that doesn't seem logical unless either contributions increase from outisde somehow (e.g. Google and Microsoft decides to add more writers for MDN), or GPT-3 starts generating those docs. Now if MDN starts becoming outdated, someone else will fill that void. W3Schools maybe (nobody wants this), but it seems like a better opportunity for Google to swoop in and lead, to further solidify their domination in the browser space. Cynical sounding to you I'm sure, but that seems logical to me from a homo economicus business stance. I'd be happy to hear I'm missing something or wrong in some way so this doesn't happen, since after all, competition is great.
nojvek 6y ago
Wow! paulirish on HN. I assume you have the best of intentions, I'm a massive fan of your work on DevTools and web.dev. It's just hard to digest that this will always be the view of Google especially with its ads, search, android and chrome market share (monopoly). Google has conflicting interests and it's hard to digest "Chrome knows the fundamental importance of a diverse browser ecosystem".