3 ms·

> Like I say in another comment, a recipe is not a precise set of instructions that leads to a reproducible result, like a computer program or an algorithm. It'

> Like I say in another comment, a recipe is not a precise set of instructions that leads to a reproducible result, like a computer program or an algorithm. It's a template, a mnemonic, an informal description of how to achieve a result in the ballpark of a certain target. Which is provably false for the vast majority of recipes. And you need a starting point for a recipe. You can't "grab ingredients in the quantities you desire, and cook them" if you don't know the quantities, or the temperature, or what to look for in a finished product. > I think this is one reason why many people have trouble with cooking, even when they're very good at following instructions: because they treat recipes as instructions to be followed The reason people have trouble cooking is because people are not born with an innate ability to cook. And on the contrary I think many more people cook now precisely because the recipes are not vague incantations of ingredients. Music and painting are not precise either. And yet, you don't expect anyone to become a master improviser from day one.

AlotOfReading 6y ago
Another thing to consider is that prior to the late 19th/20th centuries, standardization of ingredients and quantities was not really a thing. Flour came in different densities and gluten contents, depending on what the mill felt like producing. Tomatoes came in different sizes and acidities depending on the soil and weather, and neither stoves nor ovens had effective temperature control. If they had told you to use 50g of something, that wouldn't have meant 50g of whatever the reader had, and it certainly wouldn't mean 50g of what you can get. Instead, the reader is expected to "fill in the gaps", a much more reasonable expectation when everyone is cooking daily with the same few dozen ingredients because long term preservation isn't a thing yet outside pickling/curing/fermentation.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  Yup, and precision instruments were not something you would have at a regular household.
YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
>> Which is provably false for the vast majority of recipes. I'm not trying to pick a fight but I'm genuinely curious to see how you would disprove my statement. Like, a formal (counter) proof etc. Just to clarify, I mean that a recipe might be written as if it was a precise set of instructions, but that's not the proper way to use it. And yes, to be honest, "grab ingredients in the quantities you desire and cook them" is how I cook all my meals. There are very few things I actually measure, for instance I have a little dosimetric spoon that I use for spices, mostly beause I like the spoon though, not because I really need it to figure out how much I need of each spice. Everything else I eyball, because I know what makes sense to cook. Everyone I know who knows how to cook more than basic stuff cooks that way. That's cooking- not baking, btw. Apparently that requires precision, but I don't really bake.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  > I'm not trying to pick a fight but I'm genuinely curious to see how you would disprove my statement. Like, a formal (counter) proof etc. You've proven it yourself: > That's cooking- not baking, btw. Apparently that requires precision, but I don't really bake. How is baking different from cooking that baking requires precision whereas cooking "does not"? It's the same process: raw ingredients are subjected to chemical and thermochemical reactions to achieve a result. Their recipes are in the same cookbooks. They have a significant overlap in ingredients. Where do you draw a line? Is Beef Wellington coking or baking? Or do you go by feeling? "Today I'm baking, so I'm going to do a precise beef Wellington recipe"? What about Shepherd's Pie? Baking is defined as "to cook by dry heat especially in an oven" [1] Exactly what's being done to the shepherd's pie (as is done to any other pies). Precision or "it's not a proper way to use it, you have to wing it"? Or mince pie? If you have meat in it, then "it's pointless to give such precise instructions", but if you remove meat, then "apparently that requires precision", is that how it works? > And yes, to be honest, "grab ingredients in the quantities you desire and cook them" is how I cook all my meals. There are very few things I actually measure I am not you. And many people are not you. I presume that you learned how to cook as a kid from your parents? It means that you did receive quite precise instructions at one point until you learned how things work. And I bet that for any new recipe that you've never tried before you will look for and work with precise instructions. [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bake https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bake

AlotOfReading 6y ago

Another thing to consider is that prior to the late 19th/20th centuries, standardization of ingredients and quantities was not really a thing. Flour came in different densities and gluten contents, depending on what the mill felt like producing. Tomatoes came in different sizes and acidities depending on the soil and weather, and neither stoves nor ovens had effective temperature control. If they had told you to use 50g of something, that wouldn't have meant 50g of whatever the reader had, and it certainly wouldn't mean 50g of what you can get. Instead, the reader is expected to "fill in the gaps", a much more reasonable expectation when everyone is cooking daily with the same few dozen ingredients because long term preservation isn't a thing yet outside pickling/curing/fermentation.

dmitriid 6y ago
Yup, and precision instruments were not something you would have at a regular household.

YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago

>> Which is provably false for the vast majority of recipes. I'm not trying to pick a fight but I'm genuinely curious to see how you would disprove my statement. Like, a formal (counter) proof etc. Just to clarify, I mean that a recipe might be written as if it was a precise set of instructions, but that's not the proper way to use it. And yes, to be honest, "grab ingredients in the quantities you desire and cook them" is how I cook all my meals. There are very few things I actually measure, for instance I have a little dosimetric spoon that I use for spices, mostly beause I like the spoon though, not because I really need it to figure out how much I need of each spice. Everything else I eyball, because I know what makes sense to cook. Everyone I know who knows how to cook more than basic stuff cooks that way. That's cooking- not baking, btw. Apparently that requires precision, but I don't really bake.

dmitriid 6y ago
> I'm not trying to pick a fight but I'm genuinely curious to see how you would disprove my statement. Like, a formal (counter) proof etc. You've proven it yourself: > That's cooking- not baking, btw. Apparently that requires precision, but I don't really bake. How is baking different from cooking that baking requires precision whereas cooking "does not"? It's the same process: raw ingredients are subjected to chemical and thermochemical reactions to achieve a result. Their recipes are in the same cookbooks. They have a significant overlap in ingredients. Where do you draw a line? Is Beef Wellington coking or baking? Or do you go by feeling? "Today I'm baking, so I'm going to do a precise beef Wellington recipe"? What about Shepherd's Pie? Baking is defined as "to cook by dry heat especially in an oven" [1] Exactly what's being done to the shepherd's pie (as is done to any other pies). Precision or "it's not a proper way to use it, you have to wing it"? Or mince pie? If you have meat in it, then "it's pointless to give such precise instructions", but if you remove meat, then "apparently that requires precision", is that how it works? > And yes, to be honest, "grab ingredients in the quantities you desire and cook them" is how I cook all my meals. There are very few things I actually measure I am not you. And many people are not you. I presume that you learned how to cook as a kid from your parents? It means that you did receive quite precise instructions at one point until you learned how things work. And I bet that for any new recipe that you've never tried before you will look for and work with precise instructions. [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bake https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bake