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Okay, but why is this theory so different? There are lots and lots of conspiracy theories from every corner of the political sphere. Why is this one a real secu

Okay, but why is this theory so different? There are lots and lots of conspiracy theories from every corner of the political sphere. Why is this one a real security threat?

krapp 6y ago
From the abstract of the article, literally the first paragraph: Abstract: The QAnon conspiracy theory, which emerged in 2017, has quickly risen to prominence in the United States. A survey of cases of individuals who have allegedly or apparently been radicalized to criminal acts with a nexus to violence by QAnon, including one case that saw a guilty plea on a terrorism charge, makes clear that QAnon represents a public security threat with the potential in the future to become a more impactful domestic terror threat.
- xhkkffbf 6y ago
  Yes, but that doesn't explain why it's different from other conspiracy theories. Some people have told me with a straight face that they believe the CIA is hiding something funny in vaccines and so they won't take a COVID-19 shot. Others prattle on and on about the Jews. Some use events long ago (slavery, war, etc) as a justification for vandalism, theft and violence today. I understand how QAnon is driving some people nuts, but there are lots of theories that are driving people nuts. Many crimes are justified by different theories.
rblatz 6y ago
This already happened because of QAnon. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/pizzagate-attack-sentence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/pizzagate-attack-sente... These people see a powerful satanic child raping cabal of power that run things from the shadows. Their champion is Donald Trump, if he were to lose this election it's not a reach to see an uptick in these sorts of attacks. Because, honestly, if this conspiracy were true, the only moral thing to do would be to oppose it.
- carry_bit 6y ago
  The first drop by Q happened months after that story...
  - rblatz 6y ago
    Looks like I got my the left is full of pedo's conspiracies confused. I think the general point still stands.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  Urban legends about a "powerful satanic child raping cabal of power that run things from the shadows" date back to the 1980s at least. Some of the underlying tropes are centuries old or even more - for instance, there's plenty of historical, blatantly biased propaganda about Roman emperors portraying them as vicious, crazy sex predators. So what's new about Pizza and Q exactly?
  - happytoexplain 6y ago
    What's new is the sociopolitical climate and the modern web.
- aleister_777 6y ago
  I believe it was wikileaks that revealed the term "spirit cooking" along with some vague references to "having kids ready in a hottub" for the Chairman of the DNC that started pizzagate. That happened in Oct 2016. Q didn't start posting for another year.
  - anthony_romeo 6y ago
    So I graciously decided to investigate the hot tub claim. The best I could find is a thread in /r/conspiracy (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6rjx82/wikileaks_podesta_email_discusses_children_in_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6rjx82/wikileak...) linking to https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736 On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Tamera Luzzatto <tluzzatto@pewtrusts.org> wrote: With enormous gratitude to Advance Man Extraordinaire Haber, I am popping up again to share our excitement about the Reprise of Our Gang’s visit to the farm in Lovettsville. And I thought I’d share a couple more notes: We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in that pool for sure. And with the forecast showing prospects of some sun, and a cooler temp of lower 60s, I suggest you bring sweaters of whatever attire will enable us to use our outdoor table with a pergola overhead so we dine al fresco (and ideally not al-CHILLo). I am ccing Trudy to repeat the invite, and sending pining wishes-you-could-come to Rima, John P, and Laurie & Chris. Con amore, Mrs. Farmer L
spaced-out 6y ago
Because QAnon is also a religious movement. "Trust the plan" is not something conspiracy theorists from the 80s and 90s said...
- Quequau 6y ago
  Religious, like having a theology or something more consistent with a civic religion where people display certain convictions they actually do not subscribe to in order to show membership in a specific group?
  - liability 6y ago
    More along the lines of Jim Jones or scientology maybe... not all religions are positive influences.
jeromegv 6y ago
The attacker at the Prime Minister residence in Canada was driven by Qanon https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/5dzkbx/canadian-politicians-say-they-are-getting-more-violent-threats-than-ever-and-theyre-worried https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/5dzkbx/canadian-politicia...
MattGaiser 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents It is spawning a fair bit of violence.
newacct583 6y ago
It has representation in congress now, for one.
- sintaxi 6y ago
  If we're going by representation in congress isn't the Russia collusion conspiracy theory much more prevalent?
  - arel 6y ago
    A serious investigation based on actual real verified events. The series of secret meetings, lies and changing narrative from so many in the admin that were later exposed as false tells its own story. Whether it could be proved as collusion, conspiring or is another issue. There is plenty of 'there' there.
switch11 6y ago
This theory scares the heck out of people who currently control media and TV because it is very well structured it asks people to go to (in a weird sort of way) first principles and start from there * Why is bitcoin so scary? Because it completely removes CENTRAL CONTROL even more so - it removes the need to TRUST a central bank * QAnon is similar. If you read the precepts of it, it is written by someone who believes that the entire current mindset is INCULCATED and INDOCTRINATED by people through brainwashing in high school and college Which is an especially effective way to position yourself because then people have to question ARe my beliefs based on FIRST PRINCIPLES i.e. If I start with a blank slate and build on that using non-disputable facts would it lead to what the mass media is saying? And then they see - OK, Mass Media is lying Now, what is the truth at this point it doesn't even amtter if QAnon is the truth or not The victory is already won one brainwashed person suddenly recognizes they are brainwashed
- woah 6y ago
  Wake up, sheeple!!
kube-system 6y ago
There appears to be a not-insignificant number of people who believe these theories. And unlike flat-earthers, who aren't out to hurt anyone else, some of these people are motivated to take their dangerously misguided ideas of justice into their own hands.
wcarss 6y ago
I was thinking about just this the other day -- why and how is QAnon a different sort of conspiracy theory? One thought that occurred to me is that it is not a post-hoc theory to explain events in the past, like for example, 9/11 trutherism, the Kennedy assassination, COINTELPRO abuses, or Roswell. Those are "classical" conspiracy theories, and they often touch on shady machinations of government and extra-governmental sources of power, but they focus on a major fact, event, or sequence of them in the past. QAnon is predictive. It is not accurately predictive at all, but it is fundamentally present-and-future-oriented. People buying into it believe that they are in the midst of a vast conspiracy now, and expect things to transpire in the future based on that version of reality. That could make adherents act differently today and tomorrow from how they would otherwise, expecting certain rewards later or to be regarded in a particular light "when the truth comes out", instead of merely feeling differently about actors from the past and believing they have uncovered some past truth. Another aspect that I think plays a key role is the wink and nod support from those with power who know it helps maintain their grip on a certain segment of their voter base. The tacit support given by seriously empowered agents in our world is stunning and upsetting, but rarely if ever crosses a line to where they've really committed themselves. Then, there's the crowd-driven nature of it. It's like someone harnessed the concept of "anonymous" from a few years ago and deftly weaponized it for a specific political purpose. Whatever is said by Q may not have been said by Q. It may have been said to throw someone off of the trail. Anyone could claim to be speaking as Q. No one knows where legitimacy flows from. It's a headless thing, but it can't stop talking -- who knows what it might say? Who might use it to speak? It has clearly already radicalized a large number of people into rejecting many normal beliefs -- how far could it direct their actions at large, or at least those of individuals? It is a seriously great con. But these aspects -- future-orientedness, tacit legitimization, and potentially zero control -- make it a seriously scary thing to have built into the political landscape of today's society.

Okay, but why is this theory so different? There are lots and lots of conspiracy theories from every corner of the political sphere. Why is this one a real security threat?

krapp 6y ago

From the abstract of the article, literally the first paragraph: Abstract: The QAnon conspiracy theory, which emerged in 2017, has quickly risen to prominence in the United States. A survey of cases of individuals who have allegedly or apparently been radicalized to criminal acts with a nexus to violence by QAnon, including one case that saw a guilty plea on a terrorism charge, makes clear that QAnon represents a public security threat with the potential in the future to become a more impactful domestic terror threat.

xhkkffbf 6y ago
Yes, but that doesn't explain why it's different from other conspiracy theories. Some people have told me with a straight face that they believe the CIA is hiding something funny in vaccines and so they won't take a COVID-19 shot. Others prattle on and on about the Jews. Some use events long ago (slavery, war, etc) as a justification for vandalism, theft and violence today. I understand how QAnon is driving some people nuts, but there are lots of theories that are driving people nuts. Many crimes are justified by different theories.

rblatz 6y ago

This already happened because of QAnon. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/pizzagate-attack-sentence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/pizzagate-attack-sente... These people see a powerful satanic child raping cabal of power that run things from the shadows. Their champion is Donald Trump, if he were to lose this election it's not a reach to see an uptick in these sorts of attacks. Because, honestly, if this conspiracy were true, the only moral thing to do would be to oppose it.

carry_bit 6y ago
The first drop by Q happened months after that story...
- rblatz 6y ago
  Looks like I got my the left is full of pedo's conspiracies confused. I think the general point still stands.
zozbot234 6y ago
Urban legends about a "powerful satanic child raping cabal of power that run things from the shadows" date back to the 1980s at least. Some of the underlying tropes are centuries old or even more - for instance, there's plenty of historical, blatantly biased propaganda about Roman emperors portraying them as vicious, crazy sex predators. So what's new about Pizza and Q exactly?
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  What's new is the sociopolitical climate and the modern web.
aleister_777 6y ago
I believe it was wikileaks that revealed the term "spirit cooking" along with some vague references to "having kids ready in a hottub" for the Chairman of the DNC that started pizzagate. That happened in Oct 2016. Q didn't start posting for another year.
- anthony_romeo 6y ago
  So I graciously decided to investigate the hot tub claim. The best I could find is a thread in /r/conspiracy (https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6rjx82/wikileaks_podesta_email_discusses_children_in_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6rjx82/wikileak...) linking to https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736 On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Tamera Luzzatto <tluzzatto@pewtrusts.org> wrote: With enormous gratitude to Advance Man Extraordinaire Haber, I am popping up again to share our excitement about the Reprise of Our Gang’s visit to the farm in Lovettsville. And I thought I’d share a couple more notes: We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in that pool for sure. And with the forecast showing prospects of some sun, and a cooler temp of lower 60s, I suggest you bring sweaters of whatever attire will enable us to use our outdoor table with a pergola overhead so we dine al fresco (and ideally not al-CHILLo). I am ccing Trudy to repeat the invite, and sending pining wishes-you-could-come to Rima, John P, and Laurie & Chris. Con amore, Mrs. Farmer L

spaced-out 6y ago

Because QAnon is also a religious movement. "Trust the plan" is not something conspiracy theorists from the 80s and 90s said...

Quequau 6y ago
Religious, like having a theology or something more consistent with a civic religion where people display certain convictions they actually do not subscribe to in order to show membership in a specific group?
- liability 6y ago
  More along the lines of Jim Jones or scientology maybe... not all religions are positive influences.

jeromegv 6y ago

The attacker at the Prime Minister residence in Canada was driven by Qanon https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/5dzkbx/canadian-politicians-say-they-are-getting-more-violent-threats-than-ever-and-theyre-worried https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/5dzkbx/canadian-politicia...

MattGaiser 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Incidents It is spawning a fair bit of violence.

newacct583 6y ago

It has representation in congress now, for one.

sintaxi 6y ago
If we're going by representation in congress isn't the Russia collusion conspiracy theory much more prevalent?
- arel 6y ago
  A serious investigation based on actual real verified events. The series of secret meetings, lies and changing narrative from so many in the admin that were later exposed as false tells its own story. Whether it could be proved as collusion, conspiring or is another issue. There is plenty of 'there' there.

switch11 6y ago

This theory scares the heck out of people who currently control media and TV because it is very well structured it asks people to go to (in a weird sort of way) first principles and start from there * Why is bitcoin so scary? Because it completely removes CENTRAL CONTROL even more so - it removes the need to TRUST a central bank * QAnon is similar. If you read the precepts of it, it is written by someone who believes that the entire current mindset is INCULCATED and INDOCTRINATED by people through brainwashing in high school and college Which is an especially effective way to position yourself because then people have to question ARe my beliefs based on FIRST PRINCIPLES i.e. If I start with a blank slate and build on that using non-disputable facts would it lead to what the mass media is saying? And then they see - OK, Mass Media is lying Now, what is the truth at this point it doesn't even amtter if QAnon is the truth or not The victory is already won one brainwashed person suddenly recognizes they are brainwashed

woah 6y ago
Wake up, sheeple!!

kube-system 6y ago

There appears to be a not-insignificant number of people who believe these theories. And unlike flat-earthers, who aren't out to hurt anyone else, some of these people are motivated to take their dangerously misguided ideas of justice into their own hands.

wcarss 6y ago

I was thinking about just this the other day -- why and how is QAnon a different sort of conspiracy theory? One thought that occurred to me is that it is not a post-hoc theory to explain events in the past, like for example, 9/11 trutherism, the Kennedy assassination, COINTELPRO abuses, or Roswell. Those are "classical" conspiracy theories, and they often touch on shady machinations of government and extra-governmental sources of power, but they focus on a major fact, event, or sequence of them in the past. QAnon is predictive. It is not accurately predictive at all, but it is fundamentally present-and-future-oriented. People buying into it believe that they are in the midst of a vast conspiracy now, and expect things to transpire in the future based on that version of reality. That could make adherents act differently today and tomorrow from how they would otherwise, expecting certain rewards later or to be regarded in a particular light "when the truth comes out", instead of merely feeling differently about actors from the past and believing they have uncovered some past truth. Another aspect that I think plays a key role is the wink and nod support from those with power who know it helps maintain their grip on a certain segment of their voter base. The tacit support given by seriously empowered agents in our world is stunning and upsetting, but rarely if ever crosses a line to where they've really committed themselves. Then, there's the crowd-driven nature of it. It's like someone harnessed the concept of "anonymous" from a few years ago and deftly weaponized it for a specific political purpose. Whatever is said by Q may not have been said by Q. It may have been said to throw someone off of the trail. Anyone could claim to be speaking as Q. No one knows where legitimacy flows from. It's a headless thing, but it can't stop talking -- who knows what it might say? Who might use it to speak? It has clearly already radicalized a large number of people into rejecting many normal beliefs -- how far could it direct their actions at large, or at least those of individuals? It is a seriously great con. But these aspects -- future-orientedness, tacit legitimization, and potentially zero control -- make it a seriously scary thing to have built into the political landscape of today's society.