3 ms·

> Yes, I know the 95% out there who don't even know what a browser is but only know Chrome's icon gives access to the web won't understand any of this I find i

> Yes, I know the 95% out there who don't even know what a browser is but only know Chrome's icon gives access to the web won't understand any of this I find it fascinating how some people in tech bubbles think everyone else is a stupid sheep who can't possibly understand such incredibly complex concepts like what a "browser" is.

avasthe 6y ago
Depends. I have seen a lot of people who don't understand such things. And I have seen teachers who think using a different editor to write a program might affect output.
- mkr-hn 6y ago
  This expectation probably comes from seeing how even Word->Word can break things. It's reasonable to try and develop a heuristic from that.
- youngNed 6y ago
  > I have seen teachers who think using a different editor to write a program might affect output. Isn't this fairly common for Notepad for windows though? Weirdness and unexpected output due to ansi encoding rather than utf-8 IIRC - it may be fixed now, but i vaguely remember something about this
crazypython 6y ago
People think the screen is the computer. People think Google is the web. People think the search engine is the browser.
- BookHeretykow 6y ago
  More or less this is true. I encountered even web devs who thought it was unimaginable to change browser. Because extensions, because differences in css and so on. IE8 PTSD. For common user largest tragedy is lost of opened tabs. I seen this over and over again. So many people think there's no such thing like bookmarks and they keep their tabs open until OS crush or something.
sethammons 6y ago
I've met very intelligent people who have zero understanding of computers: they have been trained to click certain icons to be able to reach google for a search. I'd be interested in data supporting either more or less fluency than we might expect - but you wont be able to do an online survey to get it :)
- filleduchaos 6y ago
  > I've met very intelligent people who have zero understanding of computers I'm curious - how do you reconcile thinking they're very intelligent with thinking that they're utterly unable to grasp the basic concepts of computing? And that, precisely, is my point: as an industry we'd rather tell ourselves that it's all so impossibly hard and beyond the grasp of the common person rather than admit that we just suck at explaining things and educating people outside our bubbles.
  - sethammons 6y ago
    just because someone is good at one thing does not mean they are good at (or care to be good at) another thing. Can most people be educated on $BASIC_SUBJECT? For the most part, yes. Are they interested in doing so? In many cases, no. Some examples off the top of my head: A teacher I worked with who previously owned his own business literally thought the screen/monitor of a computer could watch him. Even after going over how computers work, he looked shifty at his computer. He was unconvinced. A teacher I worked with could not, after multiple sessions of helping her, understand how to sort outlook mail. A former boss (owned his own business, made great money, very smart) double clicked _everything_, even when single click would work. Was not interested in changing. A doctor friend using his patient software - if anything went off script, he had to call in someone else to get him back to a known point. A former math professor neighbor needed to regularly send out mailers. I helped him set up the most simple solution I could come up with for printing the mailing labels. "Here, open the internet, go to this site, log in, and click the save link. Open this other program, import that data. Load your printer and press print." He needed help. Every. Single. Time. While he said he understands that he pays AOL for internet, he said he does not know what that means (this was like 5 years ago, still using AOL?!). Tried to probe his knowledge and help fill gaps. Never happened. If his internet browser icon moved, he could not get on the internet. I'm a reasonably smart guy. Don't ask me to fix your car. Or paint. I'll make a mess. Also, basic medical/biology goes in one ear and out the other. My best friend (granted this was back in high school) could not spell "girl" (literally, "hey, how do you spell girl? Uh, girle?") or solve two step algebra equations. But he could rebuild an engine and identify the type of aircraft flying overhead by the sound the engine made. Mechanical genius. Fast forward a few years, and he found out he really likes geology. Suddenly, he is able to write coherent essays and solve advanced chemistry equations. Amazing what _interest_ in something can do. Any reasonably intelligent person can be taught a lot as long as they are interested. Many people are just not interested in learning new things, especially when it comes to computers. Now, on the complete flip side, a service clerk I was talking to two days ago likes to scan in 3d wood models, clean them up in vector based image software, move the files to autocad, and use a laser cutter to make the same models out of metal, and uses an older version of Premier to edit drone footage he captures. My mom figured out on her own how to spoof her user agent to access media that was not supposed to be available to her - but still thinks I hacked her phone via an old computer tower of hers that I was unable to fix.
RonanTheGrey 6y ago
I spent 6 months tutoring senior citizens on how to use computers (specifically it was word processing). Believe me... some of the gaps in knowledge are alot wider than you'd imagine. None of them even knew what I meant when I mentioned the "URL bar". These are people who had previously used the web to search, pay bills, etc. To them, "the internet" was the entire computer, and had no concept that the browser was a distinct entity within it. You're 100% right this is teachable but it is important not to understate the size of the canyon.

avasthe 6y ago

Depends. I have seen a lot of people who don't understand such things. And I have seen teachers who think using a different editor to write a program might affect output.

mkr-hn 6y ago
This expectation probably comes from seeing how even Word->Word can break things. It's reasonable to try and develop a heuristic from that.
youngNed 6y ago
> I have seen teachers who think using a different editor to write a program might affect output. Isn't this fairly common for Notepad for windows though? Weirdness and unexpected output due to ansi encoding rather than utf-8 IIRC - it may be fixed now, but i vaguely remember something about this

crazypython 6y ago

People think the screen is the computer. People think Google is the web. People think the search engine is the browser.

BookHeretykow 6y ago
More or less this is true. I encountered even web devs who thought it was unimaginable to change browser. Because extensions, because differences in css and so on. IE8 PTSD. For common user largest tragedy is lost of opened tabs. I seen this over and over again. So many people think there's no such thing like bookmarks and they keep their tabs open until OS crush or something.

sethammons 6y ago

I've met very intelligent people who have zero understanding of computers: they have been trained to click certain icons to be able to reach google for a search. I'd be interested in data supporting either more or less fluency than we might expect - but you wont be able to do an online survey to get it :)

filleduchaos 6y ago
> I've met very intelligent people who have zero understanding of computers I'm curious - how do you reconcile thinking they're very intelligent with thinking that they're utterly unable to grasp the basic concepts of computing? And that, precisely, is my point: as an industry we'd rather tell ourselves that it's all so impossibly hard and beyond the grasp of the common person rather than admit that we just suck at explaining things and educating people outside our bubbles.
- sethammons 6y ago
  just because someone is good at one thing does not mean they are good at (or care to be good at) another thing. Can most people be educated on $BASIC_SUBJECT? For the most part, yes. Are they interested in doing so? In many cases, no. Some examples off the top of my head: A teacher I worked with who previously owned his own business literally thought the screen/monitor of a computer could watch him. Even after going over how computers work, he looked shifty at his computer. He was unconvinced. A teacher I worked with could not, after multiple sessions of helping her, understand how to sort outlook mail. A former boss (owned his own business, made great money, very smart) double clicked _everything_, even when single click would work. Was not interested in changing. A doctor friend using his patient software - if anything went off script, he had to call in someone else to get him back to a known point. A former math professor neighbor needed to regularly send out mailers. I helped him set up the most simple solution I could come up with for printing the mailing labels. "Here, open the internet, go to this site, log in, and click the save link. Open this other program, import that data. Load your printer and press print." He needed help. Every. Single. Time. While he said he understands that he pays AOL for internet, he said he does not know what that means (this was like 5 years ago, still using AOL?!). Tried to probe his knowledge and help fill gaps. Never happened. If his internet browser icon moved, he could not get on the internet. I'm a reasonably smart guy. Don't ask me to fix your car. Or paint. I'll make a mess. Also, basic medical/biology goes in one ear and out the other. My best friend (granted this was back in high school) could not spell "girl" (literally, "hey, how do you spell girl? Uh, girle?") or solve two step algebra equations. But he could rebuild an engine and identify the type of aircraft flying overhead by the sound the engine made. Mechanical genius. Fast forward a few years, and he found out he really likes geology. Suddenly, he is able to write coherent essays and solve advanced chemistry equations. Amazing what _interest_ in something can do. Any reasonably intelligent person can be taught a lot as long as they are interested. Many people are just not interested in learning new things, especially when it comes to computers. Now, on the complete flip side, a service clerk I was talking to two days ago likes to scan in 3d wood models, clean them up in vector based image software, move the files to autocad, and use a laser cutter to make the same models out of metal, and uses an older version of Premier to edit drone footage he captures. My mom figured out on her own how to spoof her user agent to access media that was not supposed to be available to her - but still thinks I hacked her phone via an old computer tower of hers that I was unable to fix.

RonanTheGrey 6y ago

I spent 6 months tutoring senior citizens on how to use computers (specifically it was word processing). Believe me... some of the gaps in knowledge are alot wider than you'd imagine. None of them even knew what I meant when I mentioned the "URL bar". These are people who had previously used the web to search, pay bills, etc. To them, "the internet" was the entire computer, and had no concept that the browser was a distinct entity within it. You're 100% right this is teachable but it is important not to understate the size of the canyon.