4 ms·

To jump on this, what is the scope of Servo anymore? It was originally supposed to eventually replace Gecko, but last I heard they had shifted to simply moving

by aquova 6y ago

To jump on this, what is the scope of Servo anymore? It was originally supposed to eventually replace Gecko, but last I heard they had shifted to simply moving the more stable parts into Firefox with Quantum. What is the end goal of the project now, even before the recent layoffs?

dathinab 6y ago
I think it kinda didn't had an end goal anymore. They had detected the most profitable improvements and moved them over to Firefox. So I'm not really surprised about them not continuing servo, even though it had been grate. I'm more worried about some of the other layoff. Further it feels a bit like they got in a place where they financially couldn't go on like before and fanned out to get more revenue streams but if that fails we might be down to chrome + safari, which would be horrible, tbh. If it really comes to that we might even want to try to push the EU to get financially involved or something.
- dthul 6y ago
  Someone on Twitter mentioned Servo's "Layout 2020" project which would have ensured that Firefox's layout engine stays competitive: https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Layout-2020 https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Layout-2020
  - Brakenshire 6y ago
    A parallel layout engine would be a hugely important change for the web. Would mean the possibility of changing or animating layout relevant properties (which is almost all of them) without recalculating the entire page. This is the most important limitation for web UIs.
- hinkley 6y ago
  This is the problem with the low hanging fruit strategy. Everyone gets behind the 20% improvement. Almost nobody gets behind the 1% improvement. Those only happen by force of will (some developer doing it despite being told not to). In the end you are 80% of the way to the goal and the last 20% is politically insurmountable. This is, IME, a primary driver for the Lava Flow Antipattern.
- wongarsu 6y ago
  >if that fails we might be down to chrome + safari Safari isn't available on Windows, and Google doesn't want a situation where they are the only significant browser on the most popular desktop operating system. Google is scared of antitrust action, getting another monopoly is the last thing they want.
cptskippy 6y ago
> It was originally supposed to eventually replace Gecko, but last I heard they had shifted to simply moving the more stable parts into Firefox with Quantum. Those don't sound like incompatible approaches. The monolith Gecko would be difficult to replace whole hog, a modular surgical approach seems more realistic.
coldtea 6y ago
What's the scope of Gecko/Firefox anymore? If they don't invest in a new engine, and given that the old engine is not much to compare with Blink or even Webkit, what's left for them? Pocket and some BS VPN service?
- randall 6y ago
  This could keep the company alive though. If they lose their goog contract (which is 99% certain) they will have very little revenue.
  - dineshdb 6y ago
    On the contrary, google contract has been rumored to be 99.99% certain (company sources).
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - yashap 6y ago
      Now confirmed: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/08/13/mozilla-extends-critical-firefox-search-deal-with-google/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/barrycolli...
      - edoceo 6y ago
        Without AMP: https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/08/13/mozilla-extends-critical-firefox-search-deal-with-google/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/08/13/mozilla...
      - infogulch 6y ago
        Right on the heels of Mozilla's announcement to shutdown research on a promising potential next gen browser engine. Hm. I wonder if the renewal deal had an impact on which programs Mozilla cut besides raw funding.
brundolf 6y ago
I've heard from people close to the team that Servo was never intended to replace Gecko wholesale, but was intended to be an exploratory research project where new browser engine innovations could happen and eventually trickle down to Gecko piecemeal.
- dblohm7 6y ago
  As a Gecko developer, I would agree with this.

by aquova 6y ago

dathinab 6y ago

I think it kinda didn't had an end goal anymore. They had detected the most profitable improvements and moved them over to Firefox. So I'm not really surprised about them not continuing servo, even though it had been grate. I'm more worried about some of the other layoff. Further it feels a bit like they got in a place where they financially couldn't go on like before and fanned out to get more revenue streams but if that fails we might be down to chrome + safari, which would be horrible, tbh. If it really comes to that we might even want to try to push the EU to get financially involved or something.

dthul 6y ago
Someone on Twitter mentioned Servo's "Layout 2020" project which would have ensured that Firefox's layout engine stays competitive: https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Layout-2020 https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Layout-2020
- Brakenshire 6y ago
  A parallel layout engine would be a hugely important change for the web. Would mean the possibility of changing or animating layout relevant properties (which is almost all of them) without recalculating the entire page. This is the most important limitation for web UIs.
hinkley 6y ago
This is the problem with the low hanging fruit strategy. Everyone gets behind the 20% improvement. Almost nobody gets behind the 1% improvement. Those only happen by force of will (some developer doing it despite being told not to). In the end you are 80% of the way to the goal and the last 20% is politically insurmountable. This is, IME, a primary driver for the Lava Flow Antipattern.
wongarsu 6y ago
>if that fails we might be down to chrome + safari Safari isn't available on Windows, and Google doesn't want a situation where they are the only significant browser on the most popular desktop operating system. Google is scared of antitrust action, getting another monopoly is the last thing they want.

cptskippy 6y ago

> It was originally supposed to eventually replace Gecko, but last I heard they had shifted to simply moving the more stable parts into Firefox with Quantum. Those don't sound like incompatible approaches. The monolith Gecko would be difficult to replace whole hog, a modular surgical approach seems more realistic.

coldtea 6y ago

What's the scope of Gecko/Firefox anymore? If they don't invest in a new engine, and given that the old engine is not much to compare with Blink or even Webkit, what's left for them? Pocket and some BS VPN service?

randall 6y ago
This could keep the company alive though. If they lose their goog contract (which is 99% certain) they will have very little revenue.
- dineshdb 6y ago
  On the contrary, google contract has been rumored to be 99.99% certain (company sources).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - yashap 6y ago
    Now confirmed: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/08/13/mozilla-extends-critical-firefox-search-deal-with-google/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/barrycolli...
    - edoceo 6y ago
      Without AMP: https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/08/13/mozilla-extends-critical-firefox-search-deal-with-google/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/08/13/mozilla...
    - infogulch 6y ago
      Right on the heels of Mozilla's announcement to shutdown research on a promising potential next gen browser engine. Hm. I wonder if the renewal deal had an impact on which programs Mozilla cut besides raw funding.

brundolf 6y ago

I've heard from people close to the team that Servo was never intended to replace Gecko wholesale, but was intended to be an exploratory research project where new browser engine innovations could happen and eventually trickle down to Gecko piecemeal.

dblohm7 6y ago
As a Gecko developer, I would agree with this.