4 ms·

> if I buy a recipe app for $10 and then recipes for $1 a piece which I could also buy on the corresponding website, then I don't think apple should have a cut

> if I buy a recipe app for $10 and then recipes for $1 a piece which I could also buy on the corresponding website, then I don't think apple should have a cut at all. Ah that sounds like a fair point at first, but it could be argued that you gained access to those sales because of Apple. More importantly, they're processing payments for you, and every payment processor out there takes a cut, one way or the other.

alkonaut 6y ago
I meant the case in the topic where they are not processing the payments. I did get access to a market/users via the store but I still don’t think that makes Apple eligible for a cut of sales in all apps that they don’t process.
TechBro8615 6y ago
Payment processors take a cut in the range of 1-3%.
- brianwawok 6y ago
  Find me a US payment process that takes 1% for credit cards
  - TechBro8615 6y ago
    But I provided a range to absolve myself of the culpability of a citation. :) Jokes aside, I'm sure you can find processors charging < 2% for customers with high volume. But you're right, it's certainly not standard. Maybe 2-4% is a more accurate range. Point stands that it's a lot lower than 30%.
    - SyneRyder 6y ago
      Not even for high volume. Stripe's standard rate is just 1.4% for domestic cards in the UK (1.75% in Australia) and 2.9% for international sales. https://stripe.com/en-gb/pricing https://stripe.com/en-gb/pricing https://stripe.com/en-au/pricing https://stripe.com/en-au/pricing
      - brianwawok 6y ago
        Yah I was talking about the US. You cannot find 2% in the US either. Our fees are much much much higher than UK or AU.
  - 15155 6y ago
    https://www.helcim.com/us/pricing/ https://www.helcim.com/us/pricing/ is 1.9% with no volume.
    - brianwawok 6y ago
      Please change the dropdown to say Online
kwanbix 6y ago
So if I use windows does that mean that every app dev must pay 30% to Ms because you can argue that I am using their apps thanks to Microsoft. And hey, why don't we also pay Intel or and, who did the processors?
- Razengan 6y ago
  > So if I use windows does that mean that every app dev must pay 30% to Ms because you can argue that I am using their apps thanks to Microsoft. How does the Windows Store and Xbox Marketplace work? What about Epic's own games store? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/windows https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/windows https://www.xbox.com/en-US/microsoft-store https://www.xbox.com/en-US/microsoft-store https://epicgames.com https://epicgames.com
  - dessant 6y ago
    Microsoft does allow the installation of apps from any source, and they can handle payments independently from Microsoft, Windows Store is not the only app distribution method on Windows.
    - mytherin 6y ago
      Not on Windows, but on the Xbox the official store is certainly the only app distribution method. The iPhone/iPad actually have a lot in common with the Xbox/Playstation/Nintendo: they are devices that come bundled with a locked down operating systems that only allow the user to buy apps from a first party store. You can argue phones are more general purpose than gaming consoles - but with current consoles containing video players/photo viewers/web browsers/etc that is not exactly true either. Windows/Android are different because the operating system itself is the product. People don't necessarily buy a Google phone or a Microsoft desktop, but they can still buy and run the operating system separately from the physical product. The question is: if Apple should be forced to open up the iPhone ecosystem, why shouldn't Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo be forced to open up their systems for third party stores? Why are they allowed to take a mandatory cut from anyone that wants to publish on their platform, but Apple is not? To me it seems like a double standard if only Apple is forced to open up, but Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo are not. Perhaps all hardware that is sold should be open and customisable, and I should be able to install a fresh OS on any piece of hardware I buy. That makes sense to me, but then that doesn't actually solve the problem at all. People will still buy an iPhone and use iOS, so now the OS itself needs to be open in some way. How do you write any of this in law at all?
8note 6y ago
Do stores pay a percentage of each sale to the mall? That seems directly comparable. The store wouldn't have any sales without the mall's infrastructure so it seems like they would be owed a cut of everything that happens in the store
- alkonaut 6y ago
  That's not uncommon. But normally the mall isn't the only mall in town. I consider Amazon and the Apple App store to be not like stores or malls but like streets or cities. They are the market, not in the market, and if someone wants to enter the market they have to pay Apple/Amazon for the privilege. They bought/built the street and now instead of charging a cut they are charging a tax.
- bickeringyokel 6y ago
  Stores pay a hefty sum of rent to the mall, not sure thats a reasonable comparison.

alkonaut 6y ago

I meant the case in the topic where they are not processing the payments. I did get access to a market/users via the store but I still don’t think that makes Apple eligible for a cut of sales in all apps that they don’t process.

TechBro8615 6y ago

Payment processors take a cut in the range of 1-3%.

brianwawok 6y ago
Find me a US payment process that takes 1% for credit cards
- TechBro8615 6y ago
  But I provided a range to absolve myself of the culpability of a citation. :) Jokes aside, I'm sure you can find processors charging < 2% for customers with high volume. But you're right, it's certainly not standard. Maybe 2-4% is a more accurate range. Point stands that it's a lot lower than 30%.
  - SyneRyder 6y ago
    Not even for high volume. Stripe's standard rate is just 1.4% for domestic cards in the UK (1.75% in Australia) and 2.9% for international sales. https://stripe.com/en-gb/pricing https://stripe.com/en-gb/pricing https://stripe.com/en-au/pricing https://stripe.com/en-au/pricing
    - brianwawok 6y ago
      Yah I was talking about the US. You cannot find 2% in the US either. Our fees are much much much higher than UK or AU.
- 15155 6y ago
  https://www.helcim.com/us/pricing/ https://www.helcim.com/us/pricing/ is 1.9% with no volume.
  - brianwawok 6y ago
    Please change the dropdown to say Online

kwanbix 6y ago

So if I use windows does that mean that every app dev must pay 30% to Ms because you can argue that I am using their apps thanks to Microsoft. And hey, why don't we also pay Intel or and, who did the processors?

Razengan 6y ago
> So if I use windows does that mean that every app dev must pay 30% to Ms because you can argue that I am using their apps thanks to Microsoft. How does the Windows Store and Xbox Marketplace work? What about Epic's own games store? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/windows https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/windows https://www.xbox.com/en-US/microsoft-store https://www.xbox.com/en-US/microsoft-store https://epicgames.com https://epicgames.com
- dessant 6y ago
  Microsoft does allow the installation of apps from any source, and they can handle payments independently from Microsoft, Windows Store is not the only app distribution method on Windows.
  - mytherin 6y ago
    Not on Windows, but on the Xbox the official store is certainly the only app distribution method. The iPhone/iPad actually have a lot in common with the Xbox/Playstation/Nintendo: they are devices that come bundled with a locked down operating systems that only allow the user to buy apps from a first party store. You can argue phones are more general purpose than gaming consoles - but with current consoles containing video players/photo viewers/web browsers/etc that is not exactly true either. Windows/Android are different because the operating system itself is the product. People don't necessarily buy a Google phone or a Microsoft desktop, but they can still buy and run the operating system separately from the physical product. The question is: if Apple should be forced to open up the iPhone ecosystem, why shouldn't Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo be forced to open up their systems for third party stores? Why are they allowed to take a mandatory cut from anyone that wants to publish on their platform, but Apple is not? To me it seems like a double standard if only Apple is forced to open up, but Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo are not. Perhaps all hardware that is sold should be open and customisable, and I should be able to install a fresh OS on any piece of hardware I buy. That makes sense to me, but then that doesn't actually solve the problem at all. People will still buy an iPhone and use iOS, so now the OS itself needs to be open in some way. How do you write any of this in law at all?

8note 6y ago

Do stores pay a percentage of each sale to the mall? That seems directly comparable. The store wouldn't have any sales without the mall's infrastructure so it seems like they would be owed a cut of everything that happens in the store

alkonaut 6y ago
That's not uncommon. But normally the mall isn't the only mall in town. I consider Amazon and the Apple App store to be not like stores or malls but like streets or cities. They are the market, not in the market, and if someone wants to enter the market they have to pay Apple/Amazon for the privilege. They bought/built the street and now instead of charging a cut they are charging a tax.
bickeringyokel 6y ago
Stores pay a hefty sum of rent to the mall, not sure thats a reasonable comparison.