4 ms·

If a startup refuses a worker’s council this way and someone already tries to establish it, that’s a good sign to look for employment somewhere else.

eulenteufel 6y ago
In the article the N26 management is quoted: "The alternative to the Works Council should have a representation of employees who are not only based in Germany, but also all other countries, including Brazil and the United States" and "That said, if the N26 team feels that they want to organize the feedback culture in Germany differently via a works council, N26 will of course respect and support this, as well as any step in the formation of an electoral board." The article says the initial dissent from the management was due to Covid19 concerns and inclusion of international employees. It may well be that N26 is just trying to safe face, but if we take the statements as honest, they at least give the impression that the management is not in principle against a worker's council.
- denzil_correa 6y ago
  > The article says the initial dissent from the management was due to Covid19 concerns Here's the arrangement from the Worker's Council to address the concern >>> How do you ensure the health and safety of participants of the Electoral Board meeting given COVID19? > Our Health & Safety concept has been drawn up in collaboration with legal experts. > The venue we selected accommodates up to 500 people with proper physical distancing. N26 Operations GmbH has less than 500 employees, so even if all of them decide to participate, the meeting can go ahead. N26 GmbH has more employees than 500; however, with holidays, illness and travels, we anticipate that not all of them will come to the Electoral Board meeting. In the (very unlikely) event that 500 or more people turn up, the meeting will have to be postponed. > The contact details of each participant will be collected and kept for the time required by law. > At the entrance, we will check the identity of each participant to ensure that no unauthorized or external people can enter. On the 13th of August, only employees of N26 Operations GmbH can enter. On the 14th of August, only employees of N26 GmbH can enter. > If you experience symptoms of a cold, flue and/or COVID19, or you were told to quarantine, please do not come to the meeting! After the Electoral Board is set up, you will still be able to vote for the delegates for the Working Council. https://www.worker26.com/faq/ https://www.worker26.com/faq/ Edit - A real time update https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294210928234373120?s=21 https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294210928234373120?s=2... > UPDATE: Someone has called the police to check the safety measures of the meeting. They found no issue and have left the premises.
- germanier 6y ago
  That's a very carefully worded statement to avoid giving evidence on a silver platter of the crime in § 119 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 BetrVG The following offences shall be punishable by a term of imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine, or both: 1. interfering with an election to the works council, the youth and trainee delegation, the ship’s committee, the fleet works council or the representative bodies of the employees referred to in section 3 (1), clause 1 to 3 or 5, or influencing such elections by inflicting or threatening reprisals or granting or promising incentives Their actions speak different words
- BrendanCoughlan 6y ago
  German media quotes from a leaked internal E-Mail with different language (in German of course): https://financefwd.com/de/n26-wahlen/ https://financefwd.com/de/n26-wahlen/ My translation of the relevant paragraphs: The elected body stood "against almost all values we believe in at N26", it [the e-mail] says. And: "Drive: It makes us slower. Simplicity: It makes our cooperation more compley and hirarchical. Integrity: It undermines a culture of trust and could lead to a hightend level of confrontation. Excellence: It is not an up-to-date instrument of employee mangment and limits personal career development and influence." Morover, according to the e-mails argumentation, a work council would lead to a two-class society for employees, because it is responsible only for German employees. A world-wide "Employee Representation Board" is named as an alternative proposal. Back to me: Proposing a not-legally-a-work-council is a standard trick of German union busters. The real point is, of course, that the alternative board doesn't have the rights and protections of a real one. Also, looking at their Kununu reviews (I think that is a cultural equivalent of Glassdoor, though the focus is more on soft factors than money) they actually seem like the kind of work-place one would urgently want to found a work council at. So nah, not much chance of that being at all about genuine care for non-German employees.
- zaarn 6y ago
  Not just saving face. Interfering with worker councils is something a court will hammer your face in for.
yawboakye 6y ago
I'd argue that a startup, by its very definition, should be allowed free rein and not be subjected to the same laws that apply to the BMWs and Mercedes Benz-es of Germany (and Europe) at large. The benefits of working at a startup are enormous (owing to the opportunity to win equity/shares). It's only fair that there's an equally sized risk to go with it.
- BrendanCoughlan 6y ago
  Does N26 actually give their employees equity? I don't know about them specifically, but allmost all German "startups" don't.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- detaro 6y ago
  Since when is "startup" defined by "oppertunity to win shares"? And even if, equity is typically sold as a replacement for lower salary compared to expectations, not as a replacement for workers rights.
  - BrendanCoughlan 6y ago
    I think an American reader would expect a startup to almost always offer equity, but it's a language/culture-issue. In English: startup, the: Early stage company with allegedly high growth potential offering equity instead of cash, based on the idea that will be a good deal if it really takes off. In German: Startup, das: Small tech-company, usually Berlin-based, hipster culture, offering coolness and alleged skill development instead of cash, also fruit baskets and tabletop football. Of course the glamour of a German Startup is heavily based on equivocation between those two concepts.
    - detaro 6y ago
      It's also a stages thing. Early employees is one thing, at 1500 employees though? For all employees?

eulenteufel 6y ago

In the article the N26 management is quoted: "The alternative to the Works Council should have a representation of employees who are not only based in Germany, but also all other countries, including Brazil and the United States" and "That said, if the N26 team feels that they want to organize the feedback culture in Germany differently via a works council, N26 will of course respect and support this, as well as any step in the formation of an electoral board." The article says the initial dissent from the management was due to Covid19 concerns and inclusion of international employees. It may well be that N26 is just trying to safe face, but if we take the statements as honest, they at least give the impression that the management is not in principle against a worker's council.

denzil_correa 6y ago
> The article says the initial dissent from the management was due to Covid19 concerns Here's the arrangement from the Worker's Council to address the concern >>> How do you ensure the health and safety of participants of the Electoral Board meeting given COVID19? > Our Health & Safety concept has been drawn up in collaboration with legal experts. > The venue we selected accommodates up to 500 people with proper physical distancing. N26 Operations GmbH has less than 500 employees, so even if all of them decide to participate, the meeting can go ahead. N26 GmbH has more employees than 500; however, with holidays, illness and travels, we anticipate that not all of them will come to the Electoral Board meeting. In the (very unlikely) event that 500 or more people turn up, the meeting will have to be postponed. > The contact details of each participant will be collected and kept for the time required by law. > At the entrance, we will check the identity of each participant to ensure that no unauthorized or external people can enter. On the 13th of August, only employees of N26 Operations GmbH can enter. On the 14th of August, only employees of N26 GmbH can enter. > If you experience symptoms of a cold, flue and/or COVID19, or you were told to quarantine, please do not come to the meeting! After the Electoral Board is set up, you will still be able to vote for the delegates for the Working Council. https://www.worker26.com/faq/ https://www.worker26.com/faq/ Edit - A real time update https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294210928234373120?s=21 https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294210928234373120?s=2... > UPDATE: Someone has called the police to check the safety measures of the meeting. They found no issue and have left the premises.
germanier 6y ago
That's a very carefully worded statement to avoid giving evidence on a silver platter of the crime in § 119 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 BetrVG The following offences shall be punishable by a term of imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine, or both: 1. interfering with an election to the works council, the youth and trainee delegation, the ship’s committee, the fleet works council or the representative bodies of the employees referred to in section 3 (1), clause 1 to 3 or 5, or influencing such elections by inflicting or threatening reprisals or granting or promising incentives Their actions speak different words
BrendanCoughlan 6y ago
German media quotes from a leaked internal E-Mail with different language (in German of course): https://financefwd.com/de/n26-wahlen/ https://financefwd.com/de/n26-wahlen/ My translation of the relevant paragraphs: The elected body stood "against almost all values we believe in at N26", it [the e-mail] says. And: "Drive: It makes us slower. Simplicity: It makes our cooperation more compley and hirarchical. Integrity: It undermines a culture of trust and could lead to a hightend level of confrontation. Excellence: It is not an up-to-date instrument of employee mangment and limits personal career development and influence." Morover, according to the e-mails argumentation, a work council would lead to a two-class society for employees, because it is responsible only for German employees. A world-wide "Employee Representation Board" is named as an alternative proposal. Back to me: Proposing a not-legally-a-work-council is a standard trick of German union busters. The real point is, of course, that the alternative board doesn't have the rights and protections of a real one. Also, looking at their Kununu reviews (I think that is a cultural equivalent of Glassdoor, though the focus is more on soft factors than money) they actually seem like the kind of work-place one would urgently want to found a work council at. So nah, not much chance of that being at all about genuine care for non-German employees.
zaarn 6y ago
Not just saving face. Interfering with worker councils is something a court will hammer your face in for.

yawboakye 6y ago

I'd argue that a startup, by its very definition, should be allowed free rein and not be subjected to the same laws that apply to the BMWs and Mercedes Benz-es of Germany (and Europe) at large. The benefits of working at a startup are enormous (owing to the opportunity to win equity/shares). It's only fair that there's an equally sized risk to go with it.

BrendanCoughlan 6y ago
Does N26 actually give their employees equity? I don't know about them specifically, but allmost all German "startups" don't.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
detaro 6y ago
Since when is "startup" defined by "oppertunity to win shares"? And even if, equity is typically sold as a replacement for lower salary compared to expectations, not as a replacement for workers rights.
- BrendanCoughlan 6y ago
  I think an American reader would expect a startup to almost always offer equity, but it's a language/culture-issue. In English: startup, the: Early stage company with allegedly high growth potential offering equity instead of cash, based on the idea that will be a good deal if it really takes off. In German: Startup, das: Small tech-company, usually Berlin-based, hipster culture, offering coolness and alleged skill development instead of cash, also fruit baskets and tabletop football. Of course the glamour of a German Startup is heavily based on equivocation between those two concepts.
  - detaro 6y ago
    It's also a stages thing. Early employees is one thing, at 1500 employees though? For all employees?