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As a person who doesn't cook very well, the value I find in most old cookbooks (and a surprising number of modern cookbooks) is just that: historical. And somet

As a person who doesn't cook very well, the value I find in most old cookbooks (and a surprising number of modern cookbooks) is just that: historical. And sometimes the sadness that no one makes certain dishes anymore. But I can't for the life of me figure something like "Stew until ready. Not long before it's ready add finely chopped garlic" [1] or "Prepare the duck, stuff it and stew until done" [2] Give me times, and temperatures, and sizes, and weights! And don't start me on the weights :D Cups, and spoons, and whatever else are not valid systems of measure :) [1] Moldovan Beef Stew from "Moldovan Cuisine", Eronina, Avaeva. Chisinau, 1990 [2] Stuffed Duck with Buckwheat Kasha [3] from "Jewish Cuisine", Lebowich, Meisel. Riga, 1991. [3] Kasha, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasha

hadeson 6y ago
Cooking is really an art with lots of tacit knowledge that vary too much to put in a simple recipe.
082349872349872 6y ago
Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_sheet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_sheet "You want to go to 57th street? No problem, lady. I'm going to 5th avenue. Just watch me! When I get off, yours was the stop before." (video pairing: Recipe For Disaster, orig. "Masha + Kasha", with The Trouble With Tribbles)
YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
>> Give me times, and temperatures, and sizes, and weights! The thing is, it's pointless to give such precise instructions because they will only ever work for one time and one time only, the time the recipe was (presumably) tested. After that, everything you do as you carry out the instructions in the recipe with absolute precision, like a little robot chef, will still produce a different result not least because your ingredients are no longer the ingredients used in the original recipe. So for example, if someone tells you to stew a pound of beef "until ready"- the imprecision matches reality. Your pound of beef will not be the same as the pound of beef of the chef who wrote the recipe. It won't be the same as my pound of beef. It won't be the same as anyone else's pound of beef. And it won't be ready in the same exact time as everyone else's pound of beef. Not even if we're all eating from the same, very large, animal. Like I say in another comment, a recipe is not a precise set of instructions that leads to a reproducible result, like a computer program or an algorithm. It's a template, a mnemonic, an informal description of how to achieve a result in the ballpark of a certain target. I think this is one reason why many people have trouble with cooking, even when they're very good at following instructions: because they treat recipes as instructions to be followed, rather than a discussion, a debate if you like, between two cooks, or a source of inspiration.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  > Like I say in another comment, a recipe is not a precise set of instructions that leads to a reproducible result, like a computer program or an algorithm. It's a template, a mnemonic, an informal description of how to achieve a result in the ballpark of a certain target. Which is provably false for the vast majority of recipes. And you need a starting point for a recipe. You can't "grab ingredients in the quantities you desire, and cook them" if you don't know the quantities, or the temperature, or what to look for in a finished product. > I think this is one reason why many people have trouble with cooking, even when they're very good at following instructions: because they treat recipes as instructions to be followed The reason people have trouble cooking is because people are not born with an innate ability to cook. And on the contrary I think many more people cook now precisely because the recipes are not vague incantations of ingredients. Music and painting are not precise either. And yet, you don't expect anyone to become a master improviser from day one.
  - AlotOfReading 6y ago
    Another thing to consider is that prior to the late 19th/20th centuries, standardization of ingredients and quantities was not really a thing. Flour came in different densities and gluten contents, depending on what the mill felt like producing. Tomatoes came in different sizes and acidities depending on the soil and weather, and neither stoves nor ovens had effective temperature control. If they had told you to use 50g of something, that wouldn't have meant 50g of whatever the reader had, and it certainly wouldn't mean 50g of what you can get. Instead, the reader is expected to "fill in the gaps", a much more reasonable expectation when everyone is cooking daily with the same few dozen ingredients because long term preservation isn't a thing yet outside pickling/curing/fermentation.
    - dmitriid 6y ago
      Yup, and precision instruments were not something you would have at a regular household.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago

hadeson 6y ago

Cooking is really an art with lots of tacit knowledge that vary too much to put in a simple recipe.

082349872349872 6y ago

Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_sheet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_sheet "You want to go to 57th street? No problem, lady. I'm going to 5th avenue. Just watch me! When I get off, yours was the stop before." (video pairing: Recipe For Disaster, orig. "Masha + Kasha", with The Trouble With Tribbles)

YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago

>> Give me times, and temperatures, and sizes, and weights! The thing is, it's pointless to give such precise instructions because they will only ever work for one time and one time only, the time the recipe was (presumably) tested. After that, everything you do as you carry out the instructions in the recipe with absolute precision, like a little robot chef, will still produce a different result not least because your ingredients are no longer the ingredients used in the original recipe. So for example, if someone tells you to stew a pound of beef "until ready"- the imprecision matches reality. Your pound of beef will not be the same as the pound of beef of the chef who wrote the recipe. It won't be the same as my pound of beef. It won't be the same as anyone else's pound of beef. And it won't be ready in the same exact time as everyone else's pound of beef. Not even if we're all eating from the same, very large, animal. Like I say in another comment, a recipe is not a precise set of instructions that leads to a reproducible result, like a computer program or an algorithm. It's a template, a mnemonic, an informal description of how to achieve a result in the ballpark of a certain target. I think this is one reason why many people have trouble with cooking, even when they're very good at following instructions: because they treat recipes as instructions to be followed, rather than a discussion, a debate if you like, between two cooks, or a source of inspiration.

dmitriid 6y ago
> Like I say in another comment, a recipe is not a precise set of instructions that leads to a reproducible result, like a computer program or an algorithm. It's a template, a mnemonic, an informal description of how to achieve a result in the ballpark of a certain target. Which is provably false for the vast majority of recipes. And you need a starting point for a recipe. You can't "grab ingredients in the quantities you desire, and cook them" if you don't know the quantities, or the temperature, or what to look for in a finished product. > I think this is one reason why many people have trouble with cooking, even when they're very good at following instructions: because they treat recipes as instructions to be followed The reason people have trouble cooking is because people are not born with an innate ability to cook. And on the contrary I think many more people cook now precisely because the recipes are not vague incantations of ingredients. Music and painting are not precise either. And yet, you don't expect anyone to become a master improviser from day one.
- AlotOfReading 6y ago
  Another thing to consider is that prior to the late 19th/20th centuries, standardization of ingredients and quantities was not really a thing. Flour came in different densities and gluten contents, depending on what the mill felt like producing. Tomatoes came in different sizes and acidities depending on the soil and weather, and neither stoves nor ovens had effective temperature control. If they had told you to use 50g of something, that wouldn't have meant 50g of whatever the reader had, and it certainly wouldn't mean 50g of what you can get. Instead, the reader is expected to "fill in the gaps", a much more reasonable expectation when everyone is cooking daily with the same few dozen ingredients because long term preservation isn't a thing yet outside pickling/curing/fermentation.
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    Yup, and precision instruments were not something you would have at a regular household.
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago