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I would distinguish user vs developer. Android had always been partial to developers (more APIs at the cost of inconsistent and poor experience, sweeping locati

I would distinguish user vs developer. Android had always been partial to developers (more APIs at the cost of inconsistent and poor experience, sweeping location privacy on install that they refused to change until 10 version later, etc.) to entice developers to build on Android at some cost to the end user. Arguably, this 30% thing is not a freedom fight, just a payment negotiation for the publisher, and the end user could not care less (except for trusting their credit card number is not spread around and when they cancel subscription they won't have to mail a letter with certified mail). I suppose if you care about the users, you should argue for freedom of running the software you like on the device you buy (ability to control secure boot keys/root access in some sort of developer mode), akin to values that Free Software Foundation has, not some petty marketplace rules. Neither those platforms, nor Epic, seem to give rat's ass about that freedom though.

copp 6y ago
> user could not care less Some publishers are giving the dollars back to the users. Like Fortnite. Also, because of Apple's rules, you cannot just sign-up from Netflix app in iOS. You have to sign up in their Browser and then sign in. And Netflix is not allowed to even specify that in the app. Absolutely confusing, for normal users. Very horrible experience. That is what I say when they are holding you as pawns. They are okay for you and I to go through that confusing experience, instead of allowing Netflix to tell them that they have to sign up in the browser. > I suppose if you care about the users, you should argue for freedom of running the software you like on the device you buy Android does allow it. They allow you to install any software. Even software that allows you to bypass Youtube Ads. In fact that is one reason why many stick to android
- mehrdada 6y ago
  > Android does allow it. They allow you to install any software. Even software that allows you to bypass Youtube Ads. In fact that is one reason why many stick to android You can install software on your own iOS with a free developer certificate as well. You cannot scale distribution though, which is by design, and ensures security of the other billions of users. I did not mean just the software running in a container though, which is at the mercy of Android system. I want to control the software running on the computer I pay for, which most Android phones don't.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    > You can install software on your own iOS with a free developer certificate as well. And it expires after 7 days. You can't even scale using your own software without having to swap it out once a week.
- bzzzt 6y ago
  > Some publishers are giving the dollars back to the users. Like Fortnite. If my assumption Fortnite is making a profit is right they are not giving anything back. You can buy more 'fake money' for your real money which seems like a good deal to players, but the only thing they get from it are a few extra skins and items which cost Epic about nothing to produce.
lern_too_spel 6y ago
> Neither those platforms, nor the developers, seem to give a rat's ass about that freedom though. All Pixel and Android One phones allow you to unlock the bootloader. Developers do care about that.
- mehrdada 6y ago
  Yes, and that's great. Ideally you would want to be able to enroll your own security keys like Secure Boot, but I take all I can get. Android is not equivalent to Pixel though. Not even all Pixels do it by the way (notable exception was the ones sold by Verizon). So do macOS T2, and chromeOS developer mode (potentially with physical hardware screws to deter unintended misleading of a layperson). However, all of that is pretty much orthogonal to what Epic wants, which is my point. Epic does not care about user freedom in that sense, just haggling to get a cut from 30/15% to ~5-10% and they'll be on their way. It's just spun as a user freedom thing (which is actually a valid request, but accomplished with very different means).
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    > Android is not equivalent to Pixel though. Linux is not equivalent to a specific device either. That distinction is meaningless to developers, who will just get the device that lets them do what they need to do.
bad_user 6y ago
On Android you can install apps from third party sources. It's a hassle to instruct users on how to allow third party sources, which is why Epic eventually caved to Google Play's demands, after distributing Fortnite outside of Play for a year or smth. Still, it's not the same thing. In a situation in which Fortnite gets banned from Play, their marketshare on Android doesn't go to zero, and given kids are driven to have their game installed, one can argue that Fortnite would be able to survive just fine on Android outside of Play. And your main point, that the platforms don't give a rat's ass on freedom, is childish. Yes, they don't, we already knew that. Still doesn't change the fact that one is unlike the other for developers, users and their freedom to do what they want with their devices.

copp 6y ago

> user could not care less Some publishers are giving the dollars back to the users. Like Fortnite. Also, because of Apple's rules, you cannot just sign-up from Netflix app in iOS. You have to sign up in their Browser and then sign in. And Netflix is not allowed to even specify that in the app. Absolutely confusing, for normal users. Very horrible experience. That is what I say when they are holding you as pawns. They are okay for you and I to go through that confusing experience, instead of allowing Netflix to tell them that they have to sign up in the browser. > I suppose if you care about the users, you should argue for freedom of running the software you like on the device you buy Android does allow it. They allow you to install any software. Even software that allows you to bypass Youtube Ads. In fact that is one reason why many stick to android

mehrdada 6y ago
> Android does allow it. They allow you to install any software. Even software that allows you to bypass Youtube Ads. In fact that is one reason why many stick to android You can install software on your own iOS with a free developer certificate as well. You cannot scale distribution though, which is by design, and ensures security of the other billions of users. I did not mean just the software running in a container though, which is at the mercy of Android system. I want to control the software running on the computer I pay for, which most Android phones don't.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  > You can install software on your own iOS with a free developer certificate as well. And it expires after 7 days. You can't even scale using your own software without having to swap it out once a week.
bzzzt 6y ago
> Some publishers are giving the dollars back to the users. Like Fortnite. If my assumption Fortnite is making a profit is right they are not giving anything back. You can buy more 'fake money' for your real money which seems like a good deal to players, but the only thing they get from it are a few extra skins and items which cost Epic about nothing to produce.

lern_too_spel 6y ago

> Neither those platforms, nor the developers, seem to give a rat's ass about that freedom though. All Pixel and Android One phones allow you to unlock the bootloader. Developers do care about that.

mehrdada 6y ago
Yes, and that's great. Ideally you would want to be able to enroll your own security keys like Secure Boot, but I take all I can get. Android is not equivalent to Pixel though. Not even all Pixels do it by the way (notable exception was the ones sold by Verizon). So do macOS T2, and chromeOS developer mode (potentially with physical hardware screws to deter unintended misleading of a layperson). However, all of that is pretty much orthogonal to what Epic wants, which is my point. Epic does not care about user freedom in that sense, just haggling to get a cut from 30/15% to ~5-10% and they'll be on their way. It's just spun as a user freedom thing (which is actually a valid request, but accomplished with very different means).
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  > Android is not equivalent to Pixel though. Linux is not equivalent to a specific device either. That distinction is meaningless to developers, who will just get the device that lets them do what they need to do.

bad_user 6y ago

On Android you can install apps from third party sources. It's a hassle to instruct users on how to allow third party sources, which is why Epic eventually caved to Google Play's demands, after distributing Fortnite outside of Play for a year or smth. Still, it's not the same thing. In a situation in which Fortnite gets banned from Play, their marketshare on Android doesn't go to zero, and given kids are driven to have their game installed, one can argue that Fortnite would be able to survive just fine on Android outside of Play. And your main point, that the platforms don't give a rat's ass on freedom, is childish. Yes, they don't, we already knew that. Still doesn't change the fact that one is unlike the other for developers, users and their freedom to do what they want with their devices.