5 ms·

It’s the other way around. The more vote by mail, the higher the probability of fraud, and therefore the lower the trust in the results.

Buttons840 6y ago
That's highly debated. My state has voted by mail for at least a decade and I'm not aware of any problems.
leesalminen 6y ago
But only for roughly 1/2 of people. For the other half, voting in person would disenfranchise some demographics.
skosch 6y ago
Please provide credible evidence for this claim.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago
  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/new-york-election-failure-mail-in-voting/614446/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/new-yor... https://wtop.com/virginia/2020/08/unsolicited-absentee-applications-cause-confusion-in-virginia/ https://wtop.com/virginia/2020/08/unsolicited-absentee-appli...
  - Buttons840 6y ago
    Even if the claim is true, does allowing the post office to half-fail at such a critical time help matters in any way?
  - hairofadog 6y ago
    Neither of those articles mentions fraud at all. In fact, they strive to point out the problem of under funded postal and electoral systems...
    - googthrowaway42 6y ago
      I don't see where the postal system is the problem in these scenarios. USPS does not print or count ballots > “We are aware that some of the mailers may have directed the return envelopes to the wrong election offices.” Nothing is fraud if you're naive/charitable enough in how you interpret things.
      - hairofadog 6y ago
        From the article that you posted: > Ballot-printing firms couldn’t keep up with demand, and the already rickety U.S. Postal Service didn’t move the ballots to and from voters quickly enough.
      - Redoubts 6y ago
        > I don't see where the postal system is the problem in these scenarios. >> Patel said his campaign is looking at thousands of other votes that seem to be missing postmarks entirely—a post-office error Read your own link.
  - Buttons840 6y ago
    A judge has asked Trump's legal team to submit evidence of mail in voter fraud. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-13/trump-appointed-judge-demands-evidence-of-mail-in-voting-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-13/trump-app... It will be interesting to see what they submit.
Buttons840 6y ago
People will debate whether mail in voting is good or bad, fraudulent or not, etc. That's fine, let them debate, legislate, appeal to courts, etc. But besides all that: There is simply no scenario where allowing the USPS to half-fail improves the situation. Even if the USPS was running perfectly, this election would still have unusually low trust, because of the pandemic and because of our especially toxic political climate. Adding a hobbled USPS to the mix makes things much worse. Lots of people are saying Trump is trying to "muddy the waters" of the election. I suppose Trumps motivation may be debated, but I think the result is clear: A half functioning USPS will "muddy the waters" of the election result. Does anyone disagree that this will be the result? Even if (being charitable) that was not the intention.

Buttons840 6y ago

That's highly debated. My state has voted by mail for at least a decade and I'm not aware of any problems.

leesalminen 6y ago

But only for roughly 1/2 of people. For the other half, voting in person would disenfranchise some demographics.

skosch 6y ago

Please provide credible evidence for this claim.

googthrowaway42 6y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/new-york-election-failure-mail-in-voting/614446/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/new-yor... https://wtop.com/virginia/2020/08/unsolicited-absentee-applications-cause-confusion-in-virginia/ https://wtop.com/virginia/2020/08/unsolicited-absentee-appli...
- Buttons840 6y ago
  Even if the claim is true, does allowing the post office to half-fail at such a critical time help matters in any way?
- hairofadog 6y ago
  Neither of those articles mentions fraud at all. In fact, they strive to point out the problem of under funded postal and electoral systems...
  - googthrowaway42 6y ago
    I don't see where the postal system is the problem in these scenarios. USPS does not print or count ballots > “We are aware that some of the mailers may have directed the return envelopes to the wrong election offices.” Nothing is fraud if you're naive/charitable enough in how you interpret things.
    - hairofadog 6y ago
      From the article that you posted: > Ballot-printing firms couldn’t keep up with demand, and the already rickety U.S. Postal Service didn’t move the ballots to and from voters quickly enough.
    - Redoubts 6y ago
      > I don't see where the postal system is the problem in these scenarios. >> Patel said his campaign is looking at thousands of other votes that seem to be missing postmarks entirely—a post-office error Read your own link.
- Buttons840 6y ago
  A judge has asked Trump's legal team to submit evidence of mail in voter fraud. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-13/trump-appointed-judge-demands-evidence-of-mail-in-voting-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-13/trump-app... It will be interesting to see what they submit.

Buttons840 6y ago

People will debate whether mail in voting is good or bad, fraudulent or not, etc. That's fine, let them debate, legislate, appeal to courts, etc. But besides all that: There is simply no scenario where allowing the USPS to half-fail improves the situation. Even if the USPS was running perfectly, this election would still have unusually low trust, because of the pandemic and because of our especially toxic political climate. Adding a hobbled USPS to the mix makes things much worse. Lots of people are saying Trump is trying to "muddy the waters" of the election. I suppose Trumps motivation may be debated, but I think the result is clear: A half functioning USPS will "muddy the waters" of the election result. Does anyone disagree that this will be the result? Even if (being charitable) that was not the intention.