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But they do provide a better service than private industry. They deliver to everyone. In rural areas even UPS and FedEx hand off deliveries to USPS. Turns out

by untog 6y ago

But they do provide a better service than private industry. They deliver to everyone. In rural areas even UPS and FedEx hand off deliveries to USPS. Turns out operating in high density areas that turn a good profit and low density areas that don’t is difficult. It’s why UPS and FedEx don’t do it. But it’s what USPS was set up to do.

jovial_cavalier 6y ago
Why don't they just charge more to deliver to those areas? If I live on a mountain top why should I expect people to haul shit to me for free? Why would you expect them to be charged the same as someone who lives on the corner of Main and State?
- untog 6y ago
  > Why don't they just charge more to deliver to those areas? Because they aren’t allowed to, because it is considered a public service that should be equally available to all. > If i live on a mountain top why should I expect people to haul shit to me for free? Not for free. You pay taxes. And you should expect it because it’s what USPS does. Now sure, there can be a whole debate about whether or not it should be the way it is, but that’s not what you asked. As per your original post: > Unless they offer a better service than private industry, they will be a money sink. It is a better service and it’s a money sink by design: it’s a public service that is funded by taxes. If they didn’t have insane pension obligations they’d be in a much better state financially, but they’ve been kept in a stranglehold over that for many years now: https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/be-careful-what-you-assume https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/be-careful-what-you-assume
  - jovial_cavalier 6y ago
    >Now sure, there can be a whole debate about whether or not it should be the way it is, but that’s not what you asked. I literally used the word "should" in the portion of my post that you quoted, but I see you were a little eager for electronic head pats. There is no reason, in principle, why USPS can't eat up enough of the UPS/FedEx/Amazon market-share to at least stay afloat as a business without having to resort to the business tactics that people are most concerned about. (poor working conditions, anti-competitive behavior, etc.) But they aren't. They are chronically under-performing, and to me that is evidence in of itself that they are not serving their stated purpose right now.
    - bnj 6y ago
      What’s the rush? With so many people concerned about the election, if all of this is actually about the business viability of the service, surely it can’t hurt to make sure they’re fully resourced for the next few months so that no one will be in a position to say that USPS being shredded was a component of electoral fraud.
      - jovial_cavalier 6y ago
        The post is a call to action to "save the USPS." I'm saying it's not at all worth it to throw good money after bad money while the entire rest of the world is imploding.
        bnj 6y ago
        It seems like it would be a lot easier to convince people to take that point seriously by funding the post office until after the election and having the discussion then. Funding USPS for the rest of the calendar year is, in relative terms, not that expensive -- so, I would find your argument a lot more credible if you were willing to have the discussion about privatizing it in the new year.
- Imnimo 6y ago
  The USPS is not allowed to decide what postal rates are. And the commission that is allowed to decide is prohibited by Congress from charging different rates for different destinations.
  - jovial_cavalier 6y ago
    Yes, this is why I come to Hacker News. That bastion of independent and unique thought. To have wikipedia copy-pasted at me. It is obvious that I am making a prescriptive argument. I am under no illusions that they are able to enact these policies tomorrow. Their hands are tied by regulations. You know what might make those regulations go away? Making them hurt a little bit. If it becomes clear that USPS cannot exist as an institution in its current form without being a perpetual sinkhole in which to dump taxpayer dollars directly, then they will have no choice but to adapt or die. ...Or I guess we could just keep throwing money at them and hope they get better because they super duper double pinky swear promised this time.

by untog 6y ago

jovial_cavalier 6y ago

Why don't they just charge more to deliver to those areas? If I live on a mountain top why should I expect people to haul shit to me for free? Why would you expect them to be charged the same as someone who lives on the corner of Main and State?

untog 6y ago
> Why don't they just charge more to deliver to those areas? Because they aren’t allowed to, because it is considered a public service that should be equally available to all. > If i live on a mountain top why should I expect people to haul shit to me for free? Not for free. You pay taxes. And you should expect it because it’s what USPS does. Now sure, there can be a whole debate about whether or not it should be the way it is, but that’s not what you asked. As per your original post: > Unless they offer a better service than private industry, they will be a money sink. It is a better service and it’s a money sink by design: it’s a public service that is funded by taxes. If they didn’t have insane pension obligations they’d be in a much better state financially, but they’ve been kept in a stranglehold over that for many years now: https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/be-careful-what-you-assume https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/be-careful-what-you-assume
- jovial_cavalier 6y ago
  >Now sure, there can be a whole debate about whether or not it should be the way it is, but that’s not what you asked. I literally used the word "should" in the portion of my post that you quoted, but I see you were a little eager for electronic head pats. There is no reason, in principle, why USPS can't eat up enough of the UPS/FedEx/Amazon market-share to at least stay afloat as a business without having to resort to the business tactics that people are most concerned about. (poor working conditions, anti-competitive behavior, etc.) But they aren't. They are chronically under-performing, and to me that is evidence in of itself that they are not serving their stated purpose right now.
  - bnj 6y ago
    What’s the rush? With so many people concerned about the election, if all of this is actually about the business viability of the service, surely it can’t hurt to make sure they’re fully resourced for the next few months so that no one will be in a position to say that USPS being shredded was a component of electoral fraud.
    - jovial_cavalier 6y ago
      The post is a call to action to "save the USPS." I'm saying it's not at all worth it to throw good money after bad money while the entire rest of the world is imploding.
      - bnj 6y ago
        It seems like it would be a lot easier to convince people to take that point seriously by funding the post office until after the election and having the discussion then. Funding USPS for the rest of the calendar year is, in relative terms, not that expensive -- so, I would find your argument a lot more credible if you were willing to have the discussion about privatizing it in the new year.
Imnimo 6y ago
The USPS is not allowed to decide what postal rates are. And the commission that is allowed to decide is prohibited by Congress from charging different rates for different destinations.
- jovial_cavalier 6y ago
  Yes, this is why I come to Hacker News. That bastion of independent and unique thought. To have wikipedia copy-pasted at me. It is obvious that I am making a prescriptive argument. I am under no illusions that they are able to enact these policies tomorrow. Their hands are tied by regulations. You know what might make those regulations go away? Making them hurt a little bit. If it becomes clear that USPS cannot exist as an institution in its current form without being a perpetual sinkhole in which to dump taxpayer dollars directly, then they will have no choice but to adapt or die. ...Or I guess we could just keep throwing money at them and hope they get better because they super duper double pinky swear promised this time.