8 ms·
The Lisp keyboards
- rudiger 16y agoWhy are the parentheses in such an awkward place (Shift+8, Shift+9, or Shift+0)? I don't program Lisp, but why don't Lisp keyboards put parentheses in a more convenient place? Also, there are quite a few modifier keys ("Function", "Super", "Hyper", "Rub Out", etc)? Anyone know the purpose of all of them?
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- daniel-cussen 16y agoI took on online file of the Dvorak keyboard layout and modded it so the parens would be where the tags in Dvorak are (shift-W and shift-E on Qwerty). I made other mods too. It's really comfy.
- leoc 16y agoNote that all of these keyboards except the Knight have a second pair of parens: the unshifted characters on the keys just right of P, where the PC/Windows layouts have square brackets. (In turn forcing square brackets into the shifted position, and curly braces onto other keys.) This helps to balance the wear on the keys. ;)
- Semiapies 16y agoAh, I was wondering the same thing, but I hadn't caught that those two weren't the PC brackets-and-braces keys. Thanks.
- stevelosh 16y agoIt looks like the Racal-Norsk KPS-10 Lisp Prototype has them in a more convenient place, as well as on 9 and 0: http://webwit.nl/input/kps/1.jpg http://webwit.nl/input/kps/1.jpg I like that idea, even though I don't do much Lisp. Parentheses are still used everywhere in programming and are always awkward. Maybe I'll experiment with remapping some keys if I can figure out which ones to sacrifice.
- sedachv 16y agoSuper and Hyper are modifier keys for Emacs and to let you type things like Greek letters and math/logic symbols easily (you can see math symbols on the Space Cadet and Knight keyboards). Rubout is just backspace. IMO having it next to the 'a' is a really good position; I rebind my Caps Lock key to Backspace on my machines. It's more convenient than the Sun-style "Control as Caps Lock" layout.
- rbanffy 16y agoWhat's the hyper key? Here there are Control, Super (Windows) and Meta (Alt) but nothing like Hyper. I can only imagine the huge powers having a hyper key would give me ;-)
- jjs 16y agoYou can have a Hyper key (in X11, at least!) http://computing.fnal.gov/docs/products/xemacs/v21_1/xemacs.info,.SuperandHyperKeys.html http://computing.fnal.gov/docs/products/xemacs/v21_1/xemacs.... Depending on your keyboard layout, the "Menu" key makes a good Hyper, and if you've set up Caps Lock as an extra Ctrl key, you can remap your left Ctrl key to something useful. You can also separate Alt and Meta to different keys. A quick emacs session will show you whether your new modifier keys are working as intended. IIRC you can do similar for the (text-mode) Linux console as well.
- sedachv 16y agoAlso works on Windows and Mac: http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_hyper_super_keys.html http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_hyper_super_keys.html
- Natsu 16y ago> Rubout is just backspace. IMO having it next to the 'a' is a really good position; I rebind my Caps Lock key to Backspace on my machines. It's more convenient than the Sun-style "Control as Caps Lock" layout. One of my favorite keyboards of all time had the spacebar split in two. Because I learned typing such that I always use the right thumb to press the spacebar, the left half of the spacebar made a very good backspace. I've often wished I could find more good keyboards like that.
- leoc 16y agoSee http://catb.org/jargon/html/B/bucky-bits.html http://catb.org/jargon/html/B/bucky-bits.html and related.
- makmanalp 16y agoMy CS professor used to joke that they used foot pedals for open / close paren.
- naner 16y agoThis is not entirely a joke for some very serious emacs users.
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- rbarooah 16y agohttp://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/ http://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/ Not lisp specific, but he does have dedicated paren keys.
- williamdix 16y agoI really wish there was a company that would produce replicas of these keyboards which used USB. If I thought there was any chance of it being successful, I would open said business immediately. But alas, I don't think anyone wants to use these monstrosities anymore.
- bvttf 16y agokickstarter! there's probably enough nostalgia and curiosity to make it happen.
- sedachv 16y agoThere are tons of niche keyboard producers around. Most of them would probably be willing to work on custom layouts if you can show pre-orders. Here are some that produce quality mechanical keyboards: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/index.html http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/index.html http://pfuca-store.stores.yahoo.net/index.html http://pfuca-store.stores.yahoo.net/index.html http://elitekeyboards.com/ http://elitekeyboards.com/ http://www.diatec.co.jp/ http://www.diatec.co.jp/ Something like a Happy Hacking keyboard with a Space Cadet layout would be a big hit IMO. Put me down for a couple.
- rbanffy 16y agoI'm all in for a modernized Space Cadet (with cursor keys, please). I'd buy two, at least.
- sedachv 16y agoAnyone interested in this venture, drop me a line at vsedach - at - gmail.com
- sedachv 16y agoInterested parties should sign up for news: https://spreadsheets.google.com/embeddedform?formkey=dDIzNUFnTFUxanNTb1I5dEJZem1DVVE6MQ https://spreadsheets.google.com/embeddedform?formkey=dDIzNUF...
- 16y ago
- rbanffy 16y agoNotice the absence of cursor keys.
- prodigal_erik 16y agoNot sure but something gives me the impression that the cursor keys are at the far right (thumb up/down and finger pointing left/right).
- ScottBurson 16y agoThose weren't used as cursor keys. Cursor motion was done with Emacs commands (C-b, C-f, C-n, C-p). In fact I don't recall the OS using those keys for anything at all; they were available to applications, though.
- js2 16y agoHow did this get past the dupe filter? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2189916 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2189916
- mrbill 16y agoYou can build an adapter to make the Symbolics keyboards USB. I've got the parts and the keyboard, but haven't taken the time to re-compile the code for the Teensy 2.0 yet. http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-convert-your-symbolics-keyboard.html http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-convert-your-sy...
- pinchyfingers 16y agoThis is why I switch my CTRL and ALT keys, it makes Emacs painless.
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- ScottBurson 16y agoI actually have the guts of an original Space Cadet keyboard. By "guts" I mean it's just the part made by Micro Switch: the PC card with all keyswitches and keys and all wiring, but no microcontroller and no case. Nor, alas, do I have the source for the program the microcontroller ran. (I'm pretty sure it was an 8748.) Lacking that, I think it would be pretty hard to get the thing to work.
- webwit 16y agoThere are various ways to get the thing to work, for example check here: http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7 http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7 and here http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15 http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15 Of course, I advise you to forget about doing all that yourself and hand it over to the guy who wrote the Lisp keyboards article (hi!).
- deadcyclo 16y agoI have wanted a space cadet keyboard for close to 10 years now. Not only because it's really cool but because I live my life inside Emacs and this is the ultimate Emacs keyboard. Should clear up my Emacs finger pains in no time, not to speak of modifier key heaven.