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Funnily enough Apple's UI toolkits (both macOS's AppKit and iOS's UIKit) use Cassowary constraint solvers under the hood. There was also a startup a while back

Funnily enough Apple's UI toolkits (both macOS's AppKit and iOS's UIKit) use Cassowary constraint solvers under the hood. There was also a startup a while back (The Grid, I think?) that was trying to use it as the basis of a web design platform. No clue if they ever shipped anything but I remember seeing their source release for the constraint solver and thinking, "Man, if calculating layout in JavaScript wasn't a total jankfest for end-users I'd totally use this".

Animats 6y ago
That makes sense for GUI systems. If you have lots of elements with alignment constraints, a constraint solver is the right tool for the job. 20 years ago, they were obscure pieces of software, though, and rather alien to people who were thinking "word processor".
wruza 6y ago
I guess you're talking about GSS, which works fine, but I haven't seen any mention of it on the internets until this. What bugs me most is that we're stuck with what browsers provide, and they not gonna do display: cassowary; or display: kiwi; no matter how loud you cry for something a little more sane than a bunch of css crutches glued together. I'd totally use this too. https://gss.github.io/ https://gss.github.io/ http://overconstrained.io/ http://overconstrained.io/
- esprehn 6y ago
  The Houdini Layout API is specifically designed to allow adding things like display: cassowary and display: kiwi https://houdini.glitch.me/layout https://houdini.glitch.me/layout There's much discussion within browser makers about making it so you're not stuck with only what they provide.
  - madeofpalk 6y ago
    I was going to say exactly this - Houdini is a set of APIs that exposes the (CSS) layout engine to you in CSS to do all sorts of custom funky things.
    - wruza 6y ago
      Oh, that looks so promising that just glancing over that page and seeing a request/allocate cycle felt like a breath of fresh air (well, good old fresh). Thanks for sharing!
dmitriid 6y ago
Cassowary was suggested to w3c in 1999 IIRC, but was rejected. Even though the concerns are understandable at the time (processing requirements), it's still a sad development. EDIT: A better description from the author of css-layout: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13125160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13125160
cxr 6y ago
280 North did this with Cappuccino and their Atlas tool (which has unfortunately been swallowed up and forgotten after the company was acquired by Motorola).

Animats 6y ago

That makes sense for GUI systems. If you have lots of elements with alignment constraints, a constraint solver is the right tool for the job. 20 years ago, they were obscure pieces of software, though, and rather alien to people who were thinking "word processor".

wruza 6y ago

I guess you're talking about GSS, which works fine, but I haven't seen any mention of it on the internets until this. What bugs me most is that we're stuck with what browsers provide, and they not gonna do display: cassowary; or display: kiwi; no matter how loud you cry for something a little more sane than a bunch of css crutches glued together. I'd totally use this too. https://gss.github.io/ https://gss.github.io/ http://overconstrained.io/ http://overconstrained.io/

esprehn 6y ago
The Houdini Layout API is specifically designed to allow adding things like display: cassowary and display: kiwi https://houdini.glitch.me/layout https://houdini.glitch.me/layout There's much discussion within browser makers about making it so you're not stuck with only what they provide.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  I was going to say exactly this - Houdini is a set of APIs that exposes the (CSS) layout engine to you in CSS to do all sorts of custom funky things.
  - wruza 6y ago
    Oh, that looks so promising that just glancing over that page and seeing a request/allocate cycle felt like a breath of fresh air (well, good old fresh). Thanks for sharing!

dmitriid 6y ago

Cassowary was suggested to w3c in 1999 IIRC, but was rejected. Even though the concerns are understandable at the time (processing requirements), it's still a sad development. EDIT: A better description from the author of css-layout: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13125160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13125160

cxr 6y ago

280 North did this with Cappuccino and their Atlas tool (which has unfortunately been swallowed up and forgotten after the company was acquired by Motorola).