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There’s no way Epic has gotten $175 million dollars of value from Apples services let alone $175 million a year. Every single one of the popular apps would be

There’s no way Epic has gotten $175 million dollars of value from Apples services let alone $175 million a year. Every single one of the popular apps would be better off dealing with all that infrastructure on their own IMO. Installer infrastructure used to be nearly free. I absolutely disagree that Apple or Google are providing significant value here. The app discovery ship has sailed and no one is going to find your small apps on those platforms. The review processes might benefit users, but is a detriment for developers who aren’t guaranteed the ability to distribute apps they’ve invested in. Steve Ballmer wasn’t stupid for laughing at the App Store. He just wildly underestimated the stupidity of the average developer. No one would have taken the App Store deal in the 90s and Apple would have been laughed out of the industry. Now everyone throws caution to the wind and marries into a system where they have no voice and no leverage. It’s absolutely crazy.

scarface74 6y ago
You realize that in the 90s, retailers and wholesalers got a lot more than 30%? So you think the “average developer” is “stupidly” doing what they need to make money? Does Epic deliver any “value” by selling skins? How they any different than Candy Crush?
- donmcronald 6y ago
  Yeah, but in the 90s it was physical distribution. Shelf space has value. Virtual shelf space is unlimited and has almost no value. A 60% cut would be a good deal if it guaranteed you visibility equal to being on the shelf in BestBuy. Plus, there were many retailers where you could sell your products and no one could literally prevent you from building your own store if you wanted to. Imagine if Walmart was the ONLY retail store on the planet and took 30% of all revenue while selling their Great Value products in industries that have 30% margin (ex: music streaming). It’s time for regulators IMO.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    It obviously has enough value for Fortnite that made almost a billion dollars after the 30% cut selling virtual costumes and skins - that really have no value.
georgespencer 6y ago
> There's no way Epic has gotten $175 million dollars of value This feels pretty subjective. My point was that you were suggesting the App Store is just a card processing gateway. It's significantly more than that. > Installer infrastructure used to be nearly free. And viruses and malware were everywhere, and many folks hated using their computers. People forget how far we've come since the days of malfunctioning and virus-riddled PCs being the butt of jokes. > I absolutely disagree that Apple or Google are providing significant value here Eh? App review? Literally a general purpose computing platform with close to zero malware / spyware? User satisfaction for iPhone amongst the highest for any consumer product in history. > The review processes might benefit users Ah. Yes. That's the core of this I think: Apple cares about Apple, then Apple customers, then developers. Developers seem to care most about developers. Customers seem to care most about customers. > developers who aren't guaranteed the ability to distribute apps they've invested in What? If your app conforms to the rules of Apple's app store, you are absolutely able to distribute the app. > Steve Ballmer wasn't stupid for laughing at the App Store. He just wildly underestimated the stupidity of the average developer. Tough gig to argue that every single app developer on the app store is stupid and you and Steve Ballmer are the smart ones. > No one would have taken the App Store deal in the 90s I want to write this in capital letters: every. Single. Consumer. Would. The app store is better for consumers. It's better to have one trustworthy company (Apple) with my credit card information. It's better to have a simple hardware-based authentication for payments like TouchID or FaceID. It's better to have no malware and spyware. It's better to have apps which don't crash or have showstopping bugs. It's better to have refunds controlled by one predictable entity. All of those things are made possible or significantly easier by the App Store. > It's absolutely crazy Crazy might look like dismissing all the huge benefits consumers love because one developer was unwilling to either accept the commission one of their marketplaces charges, or increase their prices to offset it.

scarface74 6y ago

You realize that in the 90s, retailers and wholesalers got a lot more than 30%? So you think the “average developer” is “stupidly” doing what they need to make money? Does Epic deliver any “value” by selling skins? How they any different than Candy Crush?

donmcronald 6y ago
Yeah, but in the 90s it was physical distribution. Shelf space has value. Virtual shelf space is unlimited and has almost no value. A 60% cut would be a good deal if it guaranteed you visibility equal to being on the shelf in BestBuy. Plus, there were many retailers where you could sell your products and no one could literally prevent you from building your own store if you wanted to. Imagine if Walmart was the ONLY retail store on the planet and took 30% of all revenue while selling their Great Value products in industries that have 30% margin (ex: music streaming). It’s time for regulators IMO.
- scarface74 6y ago
  It obviously has enough value for Fortnite that made almost a billion dollars after the 30% cut selling virtual costumes and skins - that really have no value.

georgespencer 6y ago

> There's no way Epic has gotten $175 million dollars of value This feels pretty subjective. My point was that you were suggesting the App Store is just a card processing gateway. It's significantly more than that. > Installer infrastructure used to be nearly free. And viruses and malware were everywhere, and many folks hated using their computers. People forget how far we've come since the days of malfunctioning and virus-riddled PCs being the butt of jokes. > I absolutely disagree that Apple or Google are providing significant value here Eh? App review? Literally a general purpose computing platform with close to zero malware / spyware? User satisfaction for iPhone amongst the highest for any consumer product in history. > The review processes might benefit users Ah. Yes. That's the core of this I think: Apple cares about Apple, then Apple customers, then developers. Developers seem to care most about developers. Customers seem to care most about customers. > developers who aren't guaranteed the ability to distribute apps they've invested in What? If your app conforms to the rules of Apple's app store, you are absolutely able to distribute the app. > Steve Ballmer wasn't stupid for laughing at the App Store. He just wildly underestimated the stupidity of the average developer. Tough gig to argue that every single app developer on the app store is stupid and you and Steve Ballmer are the smart ones. > No one would have taken the App Store deal in the 90s I want to write this in capital letters: every. Single. Consumer. Would. The app store is better for consumers. It's better to have one trustworthy company (Apple) with my credit card information. It's better to have a simple hardware-based authentication for payments like TouchID or FaceID. It's better to have no malware and spyware. It's better to have apps which don't crash or have showstopping bugs. It's better to have refunds controlled by one predictable entity. All of those things are made possible or significantly easier by the App Store. > It's absolutely crazy Crazy might look like dismissing all the huge benefits consumers love because one developer was unwilling to either accept the commission one of their marketplaces charges, or increase their prices to offset it.