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Not only that, but it becomes impossible to tell whether someone in a group benefited by AA is in a given position because of AA, or because of their merit. Thi

by jpxw 6y ago

Not only that, but it becomes impossible to tell whether someone in a group benefited by AA is in a given position because of AA, or because of their merit. This is harmful to people in those groups.

Larrikin 6y ago
It's only harmful when people assume that they couldn't have gotten the job or in the school without it and don't look at their merit.
- loco5niner 6y ago
  Which is what naturally ends up happening when affirmative action gets out of hand.
commandlinefan 6y ago
I worry about this a lot - my kids are Hispanic (inherited from their Mexican mother), and I honestly don’t know what to tell them when it comes time to check the “race” box for college admissions in a few years. Do they check the “hispanic” box and always wonder if they were just admitted to meet some quota? And no matter what they do, as soon as somebody realizes they have a Hispanic parent, they’ll (reasonably) assume that they did check the Hispanic box.
- throwaway189262 6y ago
  I would check it. It's a free advantage in a competitive application process. The government has plenty of misguided programs that people take advantage of. The law is blind to morals and it's clearly a stupid system, so just close your eyes first if it makes you feel better :) You shouldn't feel any worse than when you try to minimize your taxes. In a broken system there are no bad actors
- travisoneill1 6y ago
  Check the hispanic box. The system is unfair and racist, but it makes the most sense to take advantage of it.
- neutronicus 6y ago
  The Hispanic box was worth literal tens of thousands of dollars to me over my lifetime. If they're going to fall on that sword make sure it's their own choice and not yours.
- ucgradtemp 6y ago
  Research has shown that heavy AA can lead to a mismatch between the putative beneficiaries and their peers. As a result, these students are more likely to end up in the bottom of their class (IIRC, 50% of black students at top law schools ended up in the bottom 10% of their class, and AA beneficiaries who planned to major in STEM were more likely to change to a non-STEM major). So it is also possible that a preference that helps your kids get into a school could actually end up hurting them if they end up outmatched by their classmates.
hardwaregeek 6y ago
I find this a really odd point because you could say the same about people with any sort of privilege. Did Jack Welch succeed because of his intelligence or because of his race/gender? Well, a little of column A and a little of column B. White dudes do have an easier time in the business world. Should we discredit all successful white male businessmen? No, of course not. Why is it any different with minorities and Affirmative Action? Some people have privilege by circumstance and others have privilege by design. So be it.

by jpxw 6y ago

Not only that, but it becomes impossible to tell whether someone in a group benefited by AA is in a given position because of AA, or because of their merit. This is harmful to people in those groups.

Larrikin 6y ago

It's only harmful when people assume that they couldn't have gotten the job or in the school without it and don't look at their merit.

loco5niner 6y ago
Which is what naturally ends up happening when affirmative action gets out of hand.

commandlinefan 6y ago

I worry about this a lot - my kids are Hispanic (inherited from their Mexican mother), and I honestly don’t know what to tell them when it comes time to check the “race” box for college admissions in a few years. Do they check the “hispanic” box and always wonder if they were just admitted to meet some quota? And no matter what they do, as soon as somebody realizes they have a Hispanic parent, they’ll (reasonably) assume that they did check the Hispanic box.

throwaway189262 6y ago
I would check it. It's a free advantage in a competitive application process. The government has plenty of misguided programs that people take advantage of. The law is blind to morals and it's clearly a stupid system, so just close your eyes first if it makes you feel better :) You shouldn't feel any worse than when you try to minimize your taxes. In a broken system there are no bad actors
travisoneill1 6y ago
Check the hispanic box. The system is unfair and racist, but it makes the most sense to take advantage of it.
neutronicus 6y ago
The Hispanic box was worth literal tens of thousands of dollars to me over my lifetime. If they're going to fall on that sword make sure it's their own choice and not yours.
ucgradtemp 6y ago
Research has shown that heavy AA can lead to a mismatch between the putative beneficiaries and their peers. As a result, these students are more likely to end up in the bottom of their class (IIRC, 50% of black students at top law schools ended up in the bottom 10% of their class, and AA beneficiaries who planned to major in STEM were more likely to change to a non-STEM major). So it is also possible that a preference that helps your kids get into a school could actually end up hurting them if they end up outmatched by their classmates.

hardwaregeek 6y ago

I find this a really odd point because you could say the same about people with any sort of privilege. Did Jack Welch succeed because of his intelligence or because of his race/gender? Well, a little of column A and a little of column B. White dudes do have an easier time in the business world. Should we discredit all successful white male businessmen? No, of course not. Why is it any different with minorities and Affirmative Action? Some people have privilege by circumstance and others have privilege by design. So be it.