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I don’t care about Fortnite, but I would love to have the option to install alternative apps stores on iOS. This has to be the most dramatic example of “runnin

by valine 6y ago

I don’t care about Fortnite, but I would love to have the option to install alternative apps stores on iOS. This has to be the most dramatic example of “running to the press” to date, which I’m sure Apple loathes. If nothing else it’s entertaining.

loktarogar 6y ago
More than that. They had all this (the vid, the lawsuit, the social media campaign to mobilise their fans) ready to go, and baited Apple into kicking them off the App Store.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  I don't know if the term 'baiting' can be applied to flagrantly violating TOS.
  - loktarogar 6y ago
    Pretty much the definition. They could either play Epic's game by booting them off or face potentially other apps breaking TOS in response. Epic was aiming for a certain reaction and they achieved it.
rched 6y ago
I'm curious as to why as a user you want alternative app stores? I understand as a developer why you would but it is less obvious to me how it would improve the experience for users.
- jandrese 6y ago
  Getting the app for 20-30% less money would seem to be desirable for the users.
  - jvzr 6y ago
    There is no way companies are passing that 20-30% to the consumers.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      Other digital distribution platforms, like Bandcamp, only take 10% to 15%. I'm sure if there was true competition in the app store market, other app stores could be more efficient with the 30% cut that the App Store takes, and pass the savings off in order to compete with rival app stores that take 30%.
    - Rotten194 6y ago
      itch.io allows developers to set the take, down to 0% if they want. Patreon allows users to adjust the take in exchange for less / more features. There's lots of alternative models that aren't a flat 30% fee.
    - wvenable 6y ago
      Why not? Your argument is that companies can just charge their customers 30% more. They can do that right now just by making their prices 30% higher.
    - jandrese 6y ago
      That's exactly what Epic just tried to do and what got them kicked off of the app store.
      - jvzr 6y ago
        You're falling in their marketing trap. They are passing it now because it helps their case, but had they a lower percentage to begin with, they'd keep the price as it was. You think Epic is a benevolent corporation? No, they're a money-making machine selling pixel clothes and dances for their hit game. (I'm a gamer and I find Epic revolting.)
        shezi 6y ago
- valine 6y ago
  There are lots of private apis in iOS which developers are not allowed to use but would allow for a richer, wider variety of apps. For example f.lux has a large feature set which isn’t built into Apple’s night shift. F.lux relies on a private api so the only way to get it on iOS is through Cydia or some other jailbreak App Store. Also I can imagine there would be lots of possibilities for third party watches if apps could have properly backgrounded processes. Android watches are generally crippled on iOS when compared to the Apple Watch.
  - rched 6y ago
    I didn't consider that angle. Although to me that is almost a separate issue. Even If Apple allowed separate App Stores I suspect they would still find a way to prevent access to private APIs.
  - smartbit 6y ago
    20 years ago Microsoft used APIs that competition didn’t know about. Seems like history is repeating itself.
- DetroitThrow 6y ago
  >It's hard to understand why as a user you want alternative app stores? I, for example, want to be able to install things like the HK protest apps if I want Or better yet, just to have the choice beyond Apple's overly Christian/American censorship of apps that _might_ have porn on it. How is it hard to understand why a consumer would want a third party store? Is it hard to understand why people want choices when selecting an internet provider as well?
- wvenable 6y ago
  On Android I always have one or two apps that are sideloaded because they do something Google or Samsung doesn't like. For example, I have an app that requires a lot of effort to install that lets me remap the Bixby button on my phone to whatever I want. In addition, some open source software is only available this way. iOS, as it stands now, is actually incompatible with most open source licenses.
- fooker 6y ago
  Because the primary one might not have everything? Apple has fairly strict rules, which they themselves ignore most of the time. For example, no software development tools (which generate and run code) are allowed, in the name of security. Surely, you can think of at least one category of users who need such software?
jandrese 6y ago
I bet Epic also sent out news stories to every network to get a jump start on the narrative. They clearly spent a lot of time and effort getting everything ready before pulling the trigger on this. It has been awhile since I've seen such a media blitzkrieg on a contract dispute.
KONAir 6y ago
It is fascinating to me for the all wrong reasons. Is there a German word for this; enjoying watching opposing forces but you don't like either?
- Hackbraten 6y ago
  “Schaulust” literally translates to “joy of watching.” Schaulustige are bystanders who watch a brawl, accident or some other incident for their personal entertainment.
- mjochim 6y ago
  "Schadenfreude" comes to my mind, and the proverb "wenn sich zwei streiten, freut sich der dritte" (when two are fighting, the third is the lucky one). But Schadenfreude is more general than what you are describing and the proverb is not quite on spot, because you are not really involved in the story. I'll probably spend the next hour trying to think of a better word ;).

by valine 6y ago

loktarogar 6y ago

More than that. They had all this (the vid, the lawsuit, the social media campaign to mobilise their fans) ready to go, and baited Apple into kicking them off the App Store.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
I don't know if the term 'baiting' can be applied to flagrantly violating TOS.
- loktarogar 6y ago
  Pretty much the definition. They could either play Epic's game by booting them off or face potentially other apps breaking TOS in response. Epic was aiming for a certain reaction and they achieved it.

rched 6y ago

I'm curious as to why as a user you want alternative app stores? I understand as a developer why you would but it is less obvious to me how it would improve the experience for users.

jandrese 6y ago
Getting the app for 20-30% less money would seem to be desirable for the users.
- jvzr 6y ago
  There is no way companies are passing that 20-30% to the consumers.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    Other digital distribution platforms, like Bandcamp, only take 10% to 15%. I'm sure if there was true competition in the app store market, other app stores could be more efficient with the 30% cut that the App Store takes, and pass the savings off in order to compete with rival app stores that take 30%.
  - Rotten194 6y ago
    itch.io allows developers to set the take, down to 0% if they want. Patreon allows users to adjust the take in exchange for less / more features. There's lots of alternative models that aren't a flat 30% fee.
  - wvenable 6y ago
    Why not? Your argument is that companies can just charge their customers 30% more. They can do that right now just by making their prices 30% higher.
  - jandrese 6y ago
    That's exactly what Epic just tried to do and what got them kicked off of the app store.
    - jvzr 6y ago
      You're falling in their marketing trap. They are passing it now because it helps their case, but had they a lower percentage to begin with, they'd keep the price as it was. You think Epic is a benevolent corporation? No, they're a money-making machine selling pixel clothes and dances for their hit game. (I'm a gamer and I find Epic revolting.)
      - shezi 6y ago
valine 6y ago
There are lots of private apis in iOS which developers are not allowed to use but would allow for a richer, wider variety of apps. For example f.lux has a large feature set which isn’t built into Apple’s night shift. F.lux relies on a private api so the only way to get it on iOS is through Cydia or some other jailbreak App Store. Also I can imagine there would be lots of possibilities for third party watches if apps could have properly backgrounded processes. Android watches are generally crippled on iOS when compared to the Apple Watch.
- rched 6y ago
  I didn't consider that angle. Although to me that is almost a separate issue. Even If Apple allowed separate App Stores I suspect they would still find a way to prevent access to private APIs.
- smartbit 6y ago
  20 years ago Microsoft used APIs that competition didn’t know about. Seems like history is repeating itself.
DetroitThrow 6y ago
>It's hard to understand why as a user you want alternative app stores? I, for example, want to be able to install things like the HK protest apps if I want Or better yet, just to have the choice beyond Apple's overly Christian/American censorship of apps that _might_ have porn on it. How is it hard to understand why a consumer would want a third party store? Is it hard to understand why people want choices when selecting an internet provider as well?
wvenable 6y ago
On Android I always have one or two apps that are sideloaded because they do something Google or Samsung doesn't like. For example, I have an app that requires a lot of effort to install that lets me remap the Bixby button on my phone to whatever I want. In addition, some open source software is only available this way. iOS, as it stands now, is actually incompatible with most open source licenses.
fooker 6y ago
Because the primary one might not have everything? Apple has fairly strict rules, which they themselves ignore most of the time. For example, no software development tools (which generate and run code) are allowed, in the name of security. Surely, you can think of at least one category of users who need such software?

jandrese 6y ago

I bet Epic also sent out news stories to every network to get a jump start on the narrative. They clearly spent a lot of time and effort getting everything ready before pulling the trigger on this. It has been awhile since I've seen such a media blitzkrieg on a contract dispute.

KONAir 6y ago

It is fascinating to me for the all wrong reasons. Is there a German word for this; enjoying watching opposing forces but you don't like either?

Hackbraten 6y ago
“Schaulust” literally translates to “joy of watching.” Schaulustige are bystanders who watch a brawl, accident or some other incident for their personal entertainment.
mjochim 6y ago
"Schadenfreude" comes to my mind, and the proverb "wenn sich zwei streiten, freut sich der dritte" (when two are fighting, the third is the lucky one). But Schadenfreude is more general than what you are describing and the proverb is not quite on spot, because you are not really involved in the story. I'll probably spend the next hour trying to think of a better word ;).