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If I go to the App Store on my phone, and go to my "Purchased" list, Fortnite is still listed there. I wasn't up to date, and clicking on "update" gives the mes

If I go to the App Store on my phone, and go to my "Purchased" list, Fortnite is still listed there. I wasn't up to date, and clicking on "update" gives the message: "Fortnite" No Longer Available. The developer has removed this app from the App Store. Interesting wording. I wonder if they only have one message for pulled-by-Apple vs pulled-by-dev?

jeffrallen 6y ago
Wonder if that false message could get them in trouble with consumer rights laws?
- java-man 6y ago
  I hope it does. Monopolies lead to stagnation, rising prices, and inferior product quality. Even though Apple is not a monopoly in the strict sense, I think we consumers will benefit from alternative app store - or Apple opening up the platform. I believe one can still have (moderately) secure ecosystem without it being a walled garden.
  - Zenbit_UX 6y ago
    If you have an iPhone the Appstore is unquestionably a monopoly. At least Google can make the case you can install other app stores so the monopoly claim is weaker.
    - qeternity 6y ago
      The mere mention of Google, a perfectly suitable competitor, leads me to believe you don’t understand what a monopoly is...
      - spanhandler 6y ago
        Hell, from my perspective the app store is part of the competition. I buy i-devices over Android for a few reasons but high on the list is the set of restrictions Apple places on developers, including their payment restrictions. Those aren't harming me, they're giving me one OS where ~ none of my mind ever has to be dedicated to considering a bunch of stuff that it does on other platforms. One platform safe for less-computer-savvy relatives, that also still lets them do basically anything they might want to do and operate independently. That is choice, the fact that I can choose that.
      - slaymaker1907 6y ago
        Google doesn’t make any iOS phones though. You can make it look like there are never monopolies if you choose to only look at certain markets while ignoring others.
        qeternity 6y ago
        You’re doing just that: you’re making everything look like a monopoly by focusing on a single product. Yes, Apple has a “monopoly” on iPhones the same way that Nike has a monopoly on Air Jordans. It’s not a monopoly.
      - realusername 6y ago
        > The mere mention of Google, a perfectly suitable competitor, A perfectly suitable competitor ... which has exactly the same fees, similar policies and do not seem to have any pressure due to the competition to change them, yeah something does not sound right here. Alternatively I could compare the number of companies I could use to host my web app (100k+) to the number of companies I could use to host my mobile app (just 2). The lack of competition when you compare that to an healthy market is obvious.
        qeternity 6y ago
        Many industries converge on similar pricing, and that doesn’t make it anti competitive. It may be anti competitive here, but that also may just be the natural price the market is willing to bear.
      - cjsawyer 6y ago
        Smartphones are not stand alone widgets. They are portals into vast troves of software made by legions of developers. Right now, at least for Apple, their app store is the lone chokepoint between this software and the world. Them taking 30% of every sale between the developers and their users deserves scrutiny. This percentage is not based on the market because there is no market. There is one option. There lies the monopoly.
        cjsawyer 6y ago
        To spell this out further: There is competition in the smartphone market... but the app store has an artificial monopoly on iOS software distribution which is a separate market serving more than 100 million people.
        qeternity 6y ago
        Every manufacturer has a “monopoly” in their own product. This does not constitute a monopoly no matter how badly you want it to.
    - wheelie_boy 6y ago
      It's a little weird to say that the app store has a monopoly on distributing apps on iPhones. Does Apple also have a monopoly on writing the OS that runs on iPhones? Do they also have a monopoly on creating the iPhone hardware? And choosing what they write in press releases?
      - growse 6y ago
        > Does Apple also have a monopoly on writing the OS that runs on iPhones? Yes, of course. But I think the issue might be the extent to which this is an artificial monopoly, rather than a natural one.
        m4rtink 6y ago
        It should be perfectly possible to run custom OS on all Apple hardware if it was not for the artificial limitations they added.
        wheelie_boy 6y ago
        I doubt other companies would want to create their own device drivers
    - cruano 6y ago
      If you want a Ford then the Ford Motor Company is unquestionably a monopoly
  - acomjean 6y ago
    Its very deceptive. All those kids who have had their game shut off aren't going to be happy, but they're learning a valuable lesson. Fortnite isn't just a game anymore, its where a lot of kids are hanging out. concerts, movies and other things are happening there.
    - firloop 6y ago
      Nobody has really “had their game shut off”. People who have Fortnite installed already are still able to play it indefinitely. Apple could have done this by revoking Epic’s developer certificate, but that hasn’t yet happened.
      - Karunamon 6y ago
        That will go away the moment a server-side update requires a client update, and the update won't be accessible.
mullingitover 6y ago
Epic effectively pulled it themselves when they unilaterally broke their agreement. I think Apple's cut is egregious but at the same time, they're not a monopoly. My main gripe is that they're behaving as if they're bringing value that the developers are riding on, when in reality nobody would buy iPhones if it weren't for the value that many developers are bringing to the platform, often at no cost to Apple.
- Jellyd 6y ago
  Who else is apple competing with to put apps on iphones? Compared to android where you have indy devs, samsung store, play store, or any other store; it's a clear monopoly.
  - mullingitover 6y ago
    There isn't an iPhone industry, there's a smartphone industry, and Apple (despite all their profits) only controls a small portion of that business. Their strategy also adds a lot of consumer value. I use an iPhone specifically because I understand the tradeoffs between freedom and reliability/security, and I go for the reliability/security. Not everyone wants a second job playing sysadmin on their smartphone.
    - lostmyoldone 6y ago
      Apple's smartphone market share in US is almost 50% according to the numbers I see, how is that small?
      - heavyset_go 6y ago
        Not only that, they have the majority of app store purchases. And there is also the fact that the government doesn't classify a trust[1] by the dictionary definition of monopoly: > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...
bromuro 6y ago
To me it feels just poor wording, like often in the app store.
- gpm 6y ago
  To me it feels like borderline libel, but I doubt you could prove damages.
eqtn 6y ago
I think if apple rejects an update, the older version still exists. I could be wrong. What epic would have done after getting rejected for the latest update is pull the whole app. Then the message that appeared is correct. Apple didn't remove the older version of the app but epic

jeffrallen 6y ago

Wonder if that false message could get them in trouble with consumer rights laws?

java-man 6y ago
I hope it does. Monopolies lead to stagnation, rising prices, and inferior product quality. Even though Apple is not a monopoly in the strict sense, I think we consumers will benefit from alternative app store - or Apple opening up the platform. I believe one can still have (moderately) secure ecosystem without it being a walled garden.
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago
  If you have an iPhone the Appstore is unquestionably a monopoly. At least Google can make the case you can install other app stores so the monopoly claim is weaker.
  - qeternity 6y ago
    The mere mention of Google, a perfectly suitable competitor, leads me to believe you don’t understand what a monopoly is...
    - spanhandler 6y ago
      Hell, from my perspective the app store is part of the competition. I buy i-devices over Android for a few reasons but high on the list is the set of restrictions Apple places on developers, including their payment restrictions. Those aren't harming me, they're giving me one OS where ~ none of my mind ever has to be dedicated to considering a bunch of stuff that it does on other platforms. One platform safe for less-computer-savvy relatives, that also still lets them do basically anything they might want to do and operate independently. That is choice, the fact that I can choose that.
    - slaymaker1907 6y ago
      Google doesn’t make any iOS phones though. You can make it look like there are never monopolies if you choose to only look at certain markets while ignoring others.
      - qeternity 6y ago
        You’re doing just that: you’re making everything look like a monopoly by focusing on a single product. Yes, Apple has a “monopoly” on iPhones the same way that Nike has a monopoly on Air Jordans. It’s not a monopoly.
    - realusername 6y ago
      > The mere mention of Google, a perfectly suitable competitor, A perfectly suitable competitor ... which has exactly the same fees, similar policies and do not seem to have any pressure due to the competition to change them, yeah something does not sound right here. Alternatively I could compare the number of companies I could use to host my web app (100k+) to the number of companies I could use to host my mobile app (just 2). The lack of competition when you compare that to an healthy market is obvious.
      - qeternity 6y ago
        Many industries converge on similar pricing, and that doesn’t make it anti competitive. It may be anti competitive here, but that also may just be the natural price the market is willing to bear.
    - cjsawyer 6y ago
      Smartphones are not stand alone widgets. They are portals into vast troves of software made by legions of developers. Right now, at least for Apple, their app store is the lone chokepoint between this software and the world. Them taking 30% of every sale between the developers and their users deserves scrutiny. This percentage is not based on the market because there is no market. There is one option. There lies the monopoly.
      - cjsawyer 6y ago
        To spell this out further: There is competition in the smartphone market... but the app store has an artificial monopoly on iOS software distribution which is a separate market serving more than 100 million people.
        qeternity 6y ago
        Every manufacturer has a “monopoly” in their own product. This does not constitute a monopoly no matter how badly you want it to.
  - wheelie_boy 6y ago
    It's a little weird to say that the app store has a monopoly on distributing apps on iPhones. Does Apple also have a monopoly on writing the OS that runs on iPhones? Do they also have a monopoly on creating the iPhone hardware? And choosing what they write in press releases?
    - growse 6y ago
      > Does Apple also have a monopoly on writing the OS that runs on iPhones? Yes, of course. But I think the issue might be the extent to which this is an artificial monopoly, rather than a natural one.
      - m4rtink 6y ago
        It should be perfectly possible to run custom OS on all Apple hardware if it was not for the artificial limitations they added.
      - wheelie_boy 6y ago
        I doubt other companies would want to create their own device drivers
  - cruano 6y ago
    If you want a Ford then the Ford Motor Company is unquestionably a monopoly
- acomjean 6y ago
  Its very deceptive. All those kids who have had their game shut off aren't going to be happy, but they're learning a valuable lesson. Fortnite isn't just a game anymore, its where a lot of kids are hanging out. concerts, movies and other things are happening there.
  - firloop 6y ago
    Nobody has really “had their game shut off”. People who have Fortnite installed already are still able to play it indefinitely. Apple could have done this by revoking Epic’s developer certificate, but that hasn’t yet happened.
    - Karunamon 6y ago
      That will go away the moment a server-side update requires a client update, and the update won't be accessible.

mullingitover 6y ago

Epic effectively pulled it themselves when they unilaterally broke their agreement. I think Apple's cut is egregious but at the same time, they're not a monopoly. My main gripe is that they're behaving as if they're bringing value that the developers are riding on, when in reality nobody would buy iPhones if it weren't for the value that many developers are bringing to the platform, often at no cost to Apple.

Jellyd 6y ago
Who else is apple competing with to put apps on iphones? Compared to android where you have indy devs, samsung store, play store, or any other store; it's a clear monopoly.
- mullingitover 6y ago
  There isn't an iPhone industry, there's a smartphone industry, and Apple (despite all their profits) only controls a small portion of that business. Their strategy also adds a lot of consumer value. I use an iPhone specifically because I understand the tradeoffs between freedom and reliability/security, and I go for the reliability/security. Not everyone wants a second job playing sysadmin on their smartphone.
  - lostmyoldone 6y ago
    Apple's smartphone market share in US is almost 50% according to the numbers I see, how is that small?
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      Not only that, they have the majority of app store purchases. And there is also the fact that the government doesn't classify a trust[1] by the dictionary definition of monopoly: > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

bromuro 6y ago

To me it feels just poor wording, like often in the app store.

gpm 6y ago
To me it feels like borderline libel, but I doubt you could prove damages.

eqtn 6y ago

I think if apple rejects an update, the older version still exists. I could be wrong. What epic would have done after getting rejected for the latest update is pull the whole app. Then the message that appeared is correct. Apple didn't remove the older version of the app but epic