4 ms·
The big disagreement is whether the market should be defined as "iOS apps" or whether the market should be defined as just "smartphone apps" or "smartphones, wh
by nardi 6y ago
The big disagreement is whether the market should be defined as "iOS apps" or whether the market should be defined as just "smartphone apps" or "smartphones, which have apps."
Does Apple have monopoly power over the "iOS apps" market? Yes. Do they exclude competitors from that market? Abso-fuckin-lutely.
But it seems to me like the understanding has always been that people do have a choice. If they don't like Apple's control over the iOS App Store, they can buy an Android. Apple, after all, does not have a majority share of the smartphone market.
Under that understanding, the market is smartphones, and apps are just a feature of the smartphone.
- withinboredom 6y agoBut you don't /really/ have a choice. Once you've dumped more than a few hundred bucks into the ecosystem (or in some friend's cases, thousands) you literally must throw that away to use a different store. You cannot say: "Oh, I'm not going to the Apple store today, I'm going to use the Microsoft one." There's no competition, nor opportunity for competition. The broader smartphone app markets do not compete.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- filleduchaos 6y ago"Choice" is not defined as "the easiest thing to do", strangely enough. I'll admit, I'm a bit surprised to see this idea that the US government should mollycoddle all of its citizens through life on HN. I've spent orders of magnitude more money on my console and the games I bought for it than I've ever spent on any app store. Where is all the outrage over Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo's oh so hideous monopolistic practices?
- leadingthenet 6y agoBut that’s just like your opinion. People can and do switch phone ecosystems.
- nodamage 6y agoThe same is true for game consoles. If you buy an Xbox you cannot decide to buy Nintendo games for it. Yet I don't think anyone would claim "games for Xbox", "games for Playstation", and "games for Nintendo" are three separate markets with no competition (as opposed to one large market for "video games").
- withinboredom 6y agoYou mean, I can't go to GameStop, Walmart, or KMart, or wherever to buy xbox games? That's crazy. I thought I could. In all seriousness though, I can go to other stores to buy things. In this case, you must go to the Apple Store, you can't buy iOS apps anywhere else. (at least officially)
- nodamage 6y agoExcept in order for that game to be in a GameStop, Walmart, or KMart, the developer of the game has to sign a publisher agreement with Microsoft. This agreement gives Microsoft a royalty for every copy sold, plus approval rights over the final game, marketing, and packaging materials. So, no, a developer cannot distribute a game for Xbox without Microsoft's approval. This is also largely irrelevant to the question of whether the market of "games for Xbox" is a separate market from "games for Nintendo" or whether they're actually both competitors in the "video game" market.
- withinboredom 6y agoYes, I’m not arguing approval for building on a platform. But that’s totally separate from selling it. Apple has commingled this, IMO. I should be able to buy an app at competitive prices wherever. If Apple gets a royalty from that, that’s fine too.
- nardi 6y agoSo you think Nintendo, Xbox, Playstation, etc. should also have to allow third-party stores on their devices? EDIT: Or do you think you should be able to buy iOS apps in brick-and-mortar stores?