7 ms·

I hope Apple are forced to allow this

by maps7 6y ago

viro 6y ago
why? so epic can make more money? they don't care about you ... they just want more money
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  That actually isn't true. Tim Sweeny has majority control and does care. For him this is ideological.
  - viro 6y ago
    umm Tim Sweeny? you mean the first person to do store exclusives in PC gaming?
    - dgellow 6y ago
      Store exclusives have been a thing since forever.
      - viro 6y ago
        where on PC?
        dgellow 6y ago
        Some quick examples: - Blizzard games are exclusive to their store since forever - EA's Origin has exclusives since they exist (or at least since 2011, not sure if that's from the beginning) - Valve's games are Steam exclusives Epic has time-exclusives, offering a very good deal to game makers, and is a quite good way to compete with Steam. If you're not happy with their store, just wait a year and you may buy the games you want on other platforms if the developers decide to do so.
        account42 6y ago
        Those are all examples of companies creating their own store so they can sell their products directly wihout paying someone else. This would be equivalent to Epic requiring to you to use their store to play Fortnite. I think that is shitty behavior but as you said, has become standard. What Epic is doing, and the main reason they are being critisized, is approaching smaller developers and bribing them to not sell on other stores even if, in many cases, they had already promised their customers to sell on their stores. That is a wholly different level of scumbaggery.
        dgellow 6y ago
        There is no bribing here. They offer a better deal to developers than the competition is willing to do. And they have exclusives limited in time, the games aren’t blocked forever on their platform. That’s a good thing for developers, making and selling games is a bad business for a lot of people, Epic is offering very good terms, in exchange for a 6 months to 1 year exclusivity. I personally see it as very good on the long term, that’s how you compete with a monopoly like Steam. That means more cash invested in making games, more options for developers, more options for users.
      - La1n 6y ago
        It's funny cause that is literally how steam started too.
    - chrisan 6y ago
      That'd be Blizzard without even googling if there was a steam exclusive
- cj 6y ago
  > they just want more money They charge $10 for 1000 credits when purchasing via Apple. They charge $7 for 1000 credits when paying Epic directly. They aren't making more money with the change. Although there's nothing stopping them from increasing the price in the future.
  - skizm 6y ago
    I think it is $10 via apple, $8 via Epic. They're gaining an extra $1 on direct purchase, but that isn't really the point of this.
- ahnick 6y ago
  It's not about Epic or any single company. It is really about consumers. Allowing multiple app store choices on mobile devices would lead to competition and really highlight the fact that 30% is far too much to be asking as a tax for the app store.
  - viro 6y ago
    You say that but google has literally proven that to not be true.
    - NoSorryCannot 6y ago
      No, they haven't. Android usually permits software beyond the Google Play store but this is deliberately an obscure and deeply second-rate option. Android does what it can to steer users away.
    - badwolf 6y ago
      Epic literally tried to only have Fortnite available via direct apk/themselves. It did not go well.
    - ahnick 6y ago
      2 things here: 1) Amazon has been running there own app store successfully and that has worked out well enough for them that they continue to do so and a lot of Kindle Fire owners seem to enjoy that experience. 2) Few companies are Amazon though and the ability to operate 3rd party software outside of the purview of Google's own store is severely hamstrung for most others. This has also been called out by Epic Games previously. https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortnite-google-play-store-available-third-party-software https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortn... Google puts software downloadable outside of Google Play at a disadvantage, through technical and business measures such as scary, repetitive security pop-ups for downloaded and updated software, restrictive manufacturer and carrier agreements and dealings, Google public relations characterizing third party software sources as malware, and new efforts such as Google Play Protect to outright block software obtained outside the Google Play store. So even Google may eventually face legal issues regarding their anti-competitive app store practices. If big tech is forced to legitimately compete with other app stores, then continuing to charge a 30% fee will become untenable.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  As an indie developer, entering into the Apple ecosystem really isn’t economically worth it considering the risk of total annihilation on top of the huge chunk of revenue you lose. An open ecosystem would change that calculus significantly.
- timwaagh 6y ago
  Exactly we want them to have more money. That is the reason. We just love fortnight so much that epic receiving more money is our greatest dream.
Talyen42 6y ago
I don't. I really don't want to troubleshoot my parents iPhones after they install arbitrary code from the Alternative App Store #12 after clicking on a banner ad run by an anonymous chinese entity. Holy shit.
- ahnick 6y ago
  Then your parents can still use Apple's app store in such a world and pay a premium. In fact, in such a world your parent's would probably benefit too, because Apple would actually face competition and would reduce their 30% to a more reasonable level.
  - canttestthis 6y ago
    Apple builds trust in the iPhone by curating apps that are allowed to be installed on it. When I buy an iPhone for my family I _trust_ that Apple is doing the right thing and will prevent its users from harm. I wouldn't have that same level of trust if it was easy to just add alternate App Stores on the device.
    - RIMR 6y ago
      lmao, you sound like Apple's PR team...
    - ahnick 6y ago
      Apple curates and still bad actor apps make it onto the app store. It's not like Apple has a 100% pure record here. There is also no reason to think that Apple is the only company in the world capable of carrying out curation. If Epic Games, had their own app store I doubt they would want to allow apps on their app store that violated their users' privacy and other malicious activities just as much as Apple. Maybe you personally would never feel comfortable trusting Epic Games, but why should others even be denied the option?
      - leadingthenet 6y ago
        They’re not, they can use Android. If you buy an iPhone, this is an implicit choice you make.

I hope Apple are forced to allow this

by maps7 6y ago

I hope Apple are forced to allow this

viro 6y ago

why? so epic can make more money? they don't care about you ... they just want more money

gameswithgo 6y ago
That actually isn't true. Tim Sweeny has majority control and does care. For him this is ideological.
- viro 6y ago
  umm Tim Sweeny? you mean the first person to do store exclusives in PC gaming?
  - dgellow 6y ago
    Store exclusives have been a thing since forever.
    - viro 6y ago
      where on PC?
      - dgellow 6y ago
        Some quick examples: - Blizzard games are exclusive to their store since forever - EA's Origin has exclusives since they exist (or at least since 2011, not sure if that's from the beginning) - Valve's games are Steam exclusives Epic has time-exclusives, offering a very good deal to game makers, and is a quite good way to compete with Steam. If you're not happy with their store, just wait a year and you may buy the games you want on other platforms if the developers decide to do so.
        account42 6y ago
        Those are all examples of companies creating their own store so they can sell their products directly wihout paying someone else. This would be equivalent to Epic requiring to you to use their store to play Fortnite. I think that is shitty behavior but as you said, has become standard. What Epic is doing, and the main reason they are being critisized, is approaching smaller developers and bribing them to not sell on other stores even if, in many cases, they had already promised their customers to sell on their stores. That is a wholly different level of scumbaggery.
        dgellow 6y ago
        There is no bribing here. They offer a better deal to developers than the competition is willing to do. And they have exclusives limited in time, the games aren’t blocked forever on their platform. That’s a good thing for developers, making and selling games is a bad business for a lot of people, Epic is offering very good terms, in exchange for a 6 months to 1 year exclusivity. I personally see it as very good on the long term, that’s how you compete with a monopoly like Steam. That means more cash invested in making games, more options for developers, more options for users.
    - La1n 6y ago
      It's funny cause that is literally how steam started too.
  - chrisan 6y ago
    That'd be Blizzard without even googling if there was a steam exclusive
cj 6y ago
> they just want more money They charge $10 for 1000 credits when purchasing via Apple. They charge $7 for 1000 credits when paying Epic directly. They aren't making more money with the change. Although there's nothing stopping them from increasing the price in the future.
- skizm 6y ago
  I think it is $10 via apple, $8 via Epic. They're gaining an extra $1 on direct purchase, but that isn't really the point of this.
ahnick 6y ago
It's not about Epic or any single company. It is really about consumers. Allowing multiple app store choices on mobile devices would lead to competition and really highlight the fact that 30% is far too much to be asking as a tax for the app store.
- viro 6y ago
  You say that but google has literally proven that to not be true.
  - NoSorryCannot 6y ago
    No, they haven't. Android usually permits software beyond the Google Play store but this is deliberately an obscure and deeply second-rate option. Android does what it can to steer users away.
  - badwolf 6y ago
    Epic literally tried to only have Fortnite available via direct apk/themselves. It did not go well.
  - ahnick 6y ago
    2 things here: 1) Amazon has been running there own app store successfully and that has worked out well enough for them that they continue to do so and a lot of Kindle Fire owners seem to enjoy that experience. 2) Few companies are Amazon though and the ability to operate 3rd party software outside of the purview of Google's own store is severely hamstrung for most others. This has also been called out by Epic Games previously. https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortnite-google-play-store-available-third-party-software https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortn... Google puts software downloadable outside of Google Play at a disadvantage, through technical and business measures such as scary, repetitive security pop-ups for downloaded and updated software, restrictive manufacturer and carrier agreements and dealings, Google public relations characterizing third party software sources as malware, and new efforts such as Google Play Protect to outright block software obtained outside the Google Play store. So even Google may eventually face legal issues regarding their anti-competitive app store practices. If big tech is forced to legitimately compete with other app stores, then continuing to charge a 30% fee will become untenable.
ironmagma 6y ago
As an indie developer, entering into the Apple ecosystem really isn’t economically worth it considering the risk of total annihilation on top of the huge chunk of revenue you lose. An open ecosystem would change that calculus significantly.
timwaagh 6y ago
Exactly we want them to have more money. That is the reason. We just love fortnight so much that epic receiving more money is our greatest dream.

Talyen42 6y ago

I don't. I really don't want to troubleshoot my parents iPhones after they install arbitrary code from the Alternative App Store #12 after clicking on a banner ad run by an anonymous chinese entity. Holy shit.

ahnick 6y ago
Then your parents can still use Apple's app store in such a world and pay a premium. In fact, in such a world your parent's would probably benefit too, because Apple would actually face competition and would reduce their 30% to a more reasonable level.
- canttestthis 6y ago
  Apple builds trust in the iPhone by curating apps that are allowed to be installed on it. When I buy an iPhone for my family I _trust_ that Apple is doing the right thing and will prevent its users from harm. I wouldn't have that same level of trust if it was easy to just add alternate App Stores on the device.
  - RIMR 6y ago
    lmao, you sound like Apple's PR team...
  - ahnick 6y ago
    Apple curates and still bad actor apps make it onto the app store. It's not like Apple has a 100% pure record here. There is also no reason to think that Apple is the only company in the world capable of carrying out curation. If Epic Games, had their own app store I doubt they would want to allow apps on their app store that violated their users' privacy and other malicious activities just as much as Apple. Maybe you personally would never feel comfortable trusting Epic Games, but why should others even be denied the option?
    - leadingthenet 6y ago
      They’re not, they can use Android. If you buy an iPhone, this is an implicit choice you make.