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I wish there was more conversation happening about other countries who have already successfully put kids back at school. That might give confidence to people

I wish there was more conversation happening about other countries who have already successfully put kids back at school. That might give confidence to people in North America who feel uncertain about it.

UncleOxidant 6y ago
Those countries have been more successful overall in limiting the spread of covid. In the US it's pretty much out of control in many areas. You can send kids back to school if community spread is limited and you can do effective contact tracing - but neither of those things is true in the US.
- kazen44 6y ago
  Also, a lot of countries have far more centralized authority to figure things out.
  - mobilefriendly 6y ago
    Actually neither Japan nor Germany have a central govt authority similar to the CDC, and they are far outperforming the US response.
    - ardy42 6y ago
      > Actually neither Japan nor Germany have a central govt authority similar to the CDC, and they are far outperforming the US response. But Germany, at least, has functioning nonspecialist central government authorities that are trying to do the right thing. Even if the US government has the right kind of specialists, it's dysfunctional as a central authority.
asldkjaslkdj 6y ago
Our response to the virus as adults is so beyond the pale that it's crazy we're even talking about sending kids to school. Many places in the country have higher infection rates than when they were locked down and the current "plan" is to just live with it. Schools that have already opened have resulted in hundreds of kids quarantined as early as the first day. Over 1,000 people have been dying a day has become the norm. New Zealand just partially shut down again because 4 people became infected. Talking about successful school openings in other countries is as relevant as talking about magical unicorns at this point.
ardy42 6y ago
> I wish there was more conversation happening about other countries who have already successfully put kids back at school. > That might give confidence to people in North America who feel uncertain about it. This is like trying to give someone confidence to jump out of a plane without a parachute by talking about all the people who've safely jumped out of planes with parachutes. It's BS: the situations are different, so the examples don't apply. Step 1 of opening us schools in the US is implementing policy to get to the (lower) infection rates of those countries that have been able to safely open up schools. Unfortunately, there are US political factions that just want to skip that step and go straight to the end of the plan.
- Solvitieg 6y ago
  I don't think you analogy is well thought out. It's more like giving them the confidence to jump by telling them that other people have successfully jumped. Perhaps the jumper does not have the ideal mindset, but it's better to inform them that it is possible rather than keeping them in the dark, acting as if no one has ever successfully jumped before.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > I don't think you analogy is well thought out. > It's more like giving them the confidence to jump by telling them that other people have successfully jumped. No, you're missing the point: other people have successfully "jumped" (opened schools), but the person you're talking to (the US) is not equipped like they were and will die if they jump. Success in this case doesn't have anything to do with having the mindset to jump or not, it has everything to do with having made the right preparations before jumping. The kind of mindset change that you seem to be advocating for is the exact thing that got us into this mess: the idea that you can be successful merely by confidently believing you will succeed (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Positive_Thinking#Popular_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Positive_Thinking...). That kind of thing causes people to overconfidently blunder into failure like an idiot. If there's any mindset change needed here, it's to convince the person adopt the the mindset to be willing to turn the plane around, land, buy a parachute, take a parachuting class, go back up in the plane, and only then jump.

UncleOxidant 6y ago

Those countries have been more successful overall in limiting the spread of covid. In the US it's pretty much out of control in many areas. You can send kids back to school if community spread is limited and you can do effective contact tracing - but neither of those things is true in the US.

kazen44 6y ago
Also, a lot of countries have far more centralized authority to figure things out.
- mobilefriendly 6y ago
  Actually neither Japan nor Germany have a central govt authority similar to the CDC, and they are far outperforming the US response.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > Actually neither Japan nor Germany have a central govt authority similar to the CDC, and they are far outperforming the US response. But Germany, at least, has functioning nonspecialist central government authorities that are trying to do the right thing. Even if the US government has the right kind of specialists, it's dysfunctional as a central authority.

asldkjaslkdj 6y ago

Our response to the virus as adults is so beyond the pale that it's crazy we're even talking about sending kids to school. Many places in the country have higher infection rates than when they were locked down and the current "plan" is to just live with it. Schools that have already opened have resulted in hundreds of kids quarantined as early as the first day. Over 1,000 people have been dying a day has become the norm. New Zealand just partially shut down again because 4 people became infected. Talking about successful school openings in other countries is as relevant as talking about magical unicorns at this point.

ardy42 6y ago

> I wish there was more conversation happening about other countries who have already successfully put kids back at school. > That might give confidence to people in North America who feel uncertain about it. This is like trying to give someone confidence to jump out of a plane without a parachute by talking about all the people who've safely jumped out of planes with parachutes. It's BS: the situations are different, so the examples don't apply. Step 1 of opening us schools in the US is implementing policy to get to the (lower) infection rates of those countries that have been able to safely open up schools. Unfortunately, there are US political factions that just want to skip that step and go straight to the end of the plan.

Solvitieg 6y ago
I don't think you analogy is well thought out. It's more like giving them the confidence to jump by telling them that other people have successfully jumped. Perhaps the jumper does not have the ideal mindset, but it's better to inform them that it is possible rather than keeping them in the dark, acting as if no one has ever successfully jumped before.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > I don't think you analogy is well thought out. > It's more like giving them the confidence to jump by telling them that other people have successfully jumped. No, you're missing the point: other people have successfully "jumped" (opened schools), but the person you're talking to (the US) is not equipped like they were and will die if they jump. Success in this case doesn't have anything to do with having the mindset to jump or not, it has everything to do with having made the right preparations before jumping. The kind of mindset change that you seem to be advocating for is the exact thing that got us into this mess: the idea that you can be successful merely by confidently believing you will succeed (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Positive_Thinking#Popular_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Positive_Thinking...). That kind of thing causes people to overconfidently blunder into failure like an idiot. If there's any mindset change needed here, it's to convince the person adopt the the mindset to be willing to turn the plane around, land, buy a parachute, take a parachuting class, go back up in the plane, and only then jump.