4 ms·

I think a more apt comparison would be... If a developer doesn't like Xbox's terms, there are other gaming platforms...

60secz 6y ago
Game console to General computing device isn't exactly apples to apples. But yes, It'd be great if users could install unsigned apps on all the devices they own.
- Noos 6y ago
  If by great you mean "great for malware makers" I guess so. HN has a big problem of pushing for changes hat benefit highly tech-literate people but in reality the majority of the market needs signed apps so they don't download harmful programs. I think people need to stop looking at their own immediate interests and start considering long term aspects of things. You can't just throw out technology now without understanding how it empowers bad actors, because it amplifies them too.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    Perhaps if running unsigned apps became more widespread, businesses will spring up in the space to offer secure, curated apps as third-party app stores. Desktop software, for a long time, did not have the notion of specialized app stores or enforcing signed programs. Yes, Windows has loads of security issues. But surely this can be a problem that can be solved over time?
    - jachee 6y ago
      Why would John Q. Public trust a third party over the manufacturer of their device?
      - Apocryphon 6y ago
        Why would anyone want to download Firefox or Chrome when you can just surf with IE?
        jachee 6y ago
        Microsoft didn't make the computer, and has no incentive to ensure a high quality UX. Apple cares about their hardware customers and fosters a well-earned trust. The AppStore rules are a huge part of the foundation of that trust.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        But Microsoft made the OS, hence why shouldn’t the user trust their neatly-integrated browser? The analogy still holds.
        jachee 6y ago
        Apple is a hardware company that wants to ensure the best possible UX for their customers, and does so by vetting the software that gets installed on their hardware products. What's Microsoft's parallel motivation in your analogy?
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        So you're saying that a software company that makes operating systems, and has the incentive to want programs that run well on the said OS, has no interest in wanting its users to be locked into the browser they also make?
    - spanhandler 6y ago
      > Perhaps if running unsigned apps became more widespread, businesses will spring up in the space to offer secure, curated apps as third-party app stores. They should go ahead and do that, then make an OS and mobile devices built around their store, so I have an option other than iOS devices when I want someone in my life who's not a tech nerd to have a reasonably safe and usable computing experience that's still very robust and doesn't require any work on my part. That would be competition and improved consumer choice. I want more options that deliver the experience Apple does (or better! Please!) rather than fewer. That's the choice I want. I've got tons of only-nerds-can-use-them-safely computing options. I don't need more of those.
- lliamander 6y ago
  A game console is not general purpose computing device?
  - dathinab 6y ago
    Yes it only runs games (and maybe multimedia). Phone run everything from games over office apps to unlocking you apartment doors or handling the check-in at a hotel (yes some hotels have app based check-in). (And in the end Apps is just a handy short form of Application, so you could say even the name kinda implicates this ;=) )
    - lliamander 6y ago
      That's a software limitation, not a hardware limitation. An iPhone is also a general purpose computer that is limited (to a lesser extent ) by the software.
      - dathinab 6y ago
        Sure what they have in common is: - A general purpose hardware with specific less general purpose hardware extensions. Where they differ: - By default allowing "mostly" any legal kind of software, but then putting absurd constraints on it. - By default only allowing games and some multimedia and maybe then putting absurd constraints on it (maybe because idk tbh). I.e. even with apples constraints iOs operates as a general purpose platform while XBox/PS5/Switch do not.
  - solaceb 6y ago
    I will disagree with dathinab and say of course gaming consoles are general purpose computing devices. But they are general purpose computing devices with built-in malware that makes the device only useful for the types of computing the seller wants you to do with the device. And that's gaming, of course
mhermher 6y ago
The Xbox allows side loading. Not sure about PS.

Game console to General computing device isn't exactly apples to apples. But yes, It'd be great if users could install unsigned apps on all the devices they own.

Noos 6y ago
If by great you mean "great for malware makers" I guess so. HN has a big problem of pushing for changes hat benefit highly tech-literate people but in reality the majority of the market needs signed apps so they don't download harmful programs. I think people need to stop looking at their own immediate interests and start considering long term aspects of things. You can't just throw out technology now without understanding how it empowers bad actors, because it amplifies them too.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  Perhaps if running unsigned apps became more widespread, businesses will spring up in the space to offer secure, curated apps as third-party app stores. Desktop software, for a long time, did not have the notion of specialized app stores or enforcing signed programs. Yes, Windows has loads of security issues. But surely this can be a problem that can be solved over time?
  - jachee 6y ago
    Why would John Q. Public trust a third party over the manufacturer of their device?
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      Why would anyone want to download Firefox or Chrome when you can just surf with IE?
      - jachee 6y ago
        Microsoft didn't make the computer, and has no incentive to ensure a high quality UX. Apple cares about their hardware customers and fosters a well-earned trust. The AppStore rules are a huge part of the foundation of that trust.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        But Microsoft made the OS, hence why shouldn’t the user trust their neatly-integrated browser? The analogy still holds.
        jachee 6y ago
        Apple is a hardware company that wants to ensure the best possible UX for their customers, and does so by vetting the software that gets installed on their hardware products. What's Microsoft's parallel motivation in your analogy?
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        So you're saying that a software company that makes operating systems, and has the incentive to want programs that run well on the said OS, has no interest in wanting its users to be locked into the browser they also make?
  - spanhandler 6y ago
    > Perhaps if running unsigned apps became more widespread, businesses will spring up in the space to offer secure, curated apps as third-party app stores. They should go ahead and do that, then make an OS and mobile devices built around their store, so I have an option other than iOS devices when I want someone in my life who's not a tech nerd to have a reasonably safe and usable computing experience that's still very robust and doesn't require any work on my part. That would be competition and improved consumer choice. I want more options that deliver the experience Apple does (or better! Please!) rather than fewer. That's the choice I want. I've got tons of only-nerds-can-use-them-safely computing options. I don't need more of those.
lliamander 6y ago
A game console is not general purpose computing device?
- dathinab 6y ago
  Yes it only runs games (and maybe multimedia). Phone run everything from games over office apps to unlocking you apartment doors or handling the check-in at a hotel (yes some hotels have app based check-in). (And in the end Apps is just a handy short form of Application, so you could say even the name kinda implicates this ;=) )
  - lliamander 6y ago
    That's a software limitation, not a hardware limitation. An iPhone is also a general purpose computer that is limited (to a lesser extent ) by the software.
    - dathinab 6y ago
      Sure what they have in common is: - A general purpose hardware with specific less general purpose hardware extensions. Where they differ: - By default allowing "mostly" any legal kind of software, but then putting absurd constraints on it. - By default only allowing games and some multimedia and maybe then putting absurd constraints on it (maybe because idk tbh). I.e. even with apples constraints iOs operates as a general purpose platform while XBox/PS5/Switch do not.
- solaceb 6y ago
  I will disagree with dathinab and say of course gaming consoles are general purpose computing devices. But they are general purpose computing devices with built-in malware that makes the device only useful for the types of computing the seller wants you to do with the device. And that's gaming, of course

mhermher 6y ago

The Xbox allows side loading. Not sure about PS.