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> Money laundering has this vague definition of reusing or reinvesting any money from a crime. In the criminal context Money laundering doesn’t have a vague d

> Money laundering has this vague definition of reusing or reinvesting any money from a crime. In the criminal context Money laundering doesn’t have a vague definition. It is a crime with very specific definitions codified in statutes, each having their own elements and controlling case law from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. For example, at the US Federal level there are 4 very specific types of unlawful money laundering (promotional, concealment, structuring and tax evasion). And at least at the Federal Level the companion statute prohibits depositing or spending more than $10,000 from the predicated offense.

rvnx 6y ago
It depends on each countries, even inside the Eurozone it can get complex, for one of the European countries it is: (1) Money laundering means: 1) the concealment or disguise of the true nature, source, location, disposition, movement, right of ownership or other rights related to property derived from criminal activity or property obtained instead of such property; or 2) the conversion, transfer, acquisition, possession or use of property derived from criminal activity or property obtained instead of such property for the purpose of concealing or disguising the illicit origin of the property or of assisting a person who is involved in criminal activity to evade the legal consequences of his or her action -- "the conversion, transfer, acquisition, possession or use of property derived from criminal activity" can be applied to a lot of situations. Even a shop thief could be accused of money laundering. Obviously it would be interesting to see how the judgment goes. If there is any follow-up I'm very interested.
monoideism 6y ago
As I’m sure you know if you’ve worked in this area, there’s a vast grey area between “legitimate transfer” and “money laundering”. At least in the US. Even with every best intention in the world, it was enough to keep me multiple years ago from starting a business that might have been both beneficial to society and profitable to me. Money laundering laws favor huge corporations and serve as barriers to entry for small, disruptive, often consumer-friendly businesses. As your description implicitly concedes, you need lengthy access to very expensive lawyers to operate in this area, not to mention the cost of other compliance measures. Like the rest of the drug war, such laws have been a huge net negative for society.

rvnx 6y ago

It depends on each countries, even inside the Eurozone it can get complex, for one of the European countries it is: (1) Money laundering means: 1) the concealment or disguise of the true nature, source, location, disposition, movement, right of ownership or other rights related to property derived from criminal activity or property obtained instead of such property; or 2) the conversion, transfer, acquisition, possession or use of property derived from criminal activity or property obtained instead of such property for the purpose of concealing or disguising the illicit origin of the property or of assisting a person who is involved in criminal activity to evade the legal consequences of his or her action -- "the conversion, transfer, acquisition, possession or use of property derived from criminal activity" can be applied to a lot of situations. Even a shop thief could be accused of money laundering. Obviously it would be interesting to see how the judgment goes. If there is any follow-up I'm very interested.

monoideism 6y ago

As I’m sure you know if you’ve worked in this area, there’s a vast grey area between “legitimate transfer” and “money laundering”. At least in the US. Even with every best intention in the world, it was enough to keep me multiple years ago from starting a business that might have been both beneficial to society and profitable to me. Money laundering laws favor huge corporations and serve as barriers to entry for small, disruptive, often consumer-friendly businesses. As your description implicitly concedes, you need lengthy access to very expensive lawyers to operate in this area, not to mention the cost of other compliance measures. Like the rest of the drug war, such laws have been a huge net negative for society.