7 ms·

Your question seems to be Plenty of Israelis would happily vote to trade some or all of those regions for stable alliances with their neighbors. After the ass

Your question seems to be Plenty of Israelis would happily vote to trade some or all of those regions for stable alliances with their neighbors. After the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, that dream was never going to happen though. Israelis largely care about national security. If you could assure them that giving up those regions would guarantee peace, you would win an election.

Udik 6y ago
> If you could assure them that giving up those regions would guarantee peace, you would win an election. Eh. Are you sure you thought this through? There are about 800 thousand Israelis living in occupied and annexed territories. That's 10% of the country. Do you think they would vote to leave their homes? That people would be happy to see house and land prices skyrocket? Come on, let's not kid ourselves: land is monstrously valuable, Israelis are reaping enormous gains from the occupation. You're pretending it's indifferent, that Israelis just want peace. But for the meanwhile they'll just keep getting more free land, thank you very much.
- helge9210 6y ago
  >That people would be happy to see house and land prices skyrocket? 70% would. Government would. >Israelis are reaping enormous gains from the occupation. Some israelis. Most just pay for it, not getting anything in return.
  - Udik 6y ago
    >That people would be happy to see house and land prices skyrocket? > 70% would. Government would. Please. Stop and think. There are countries who had their youth decimated in atrocious wars to conquer portions of new territory proportionally smaller then the one Israel is occupying almost without damage. This cavalier attitude you're showing is part of the self deception of Israelis in regards to the occupation. They keep building cities in land that doesn't belong to them, but refuse to admit they're actually reaping any benefit. That the country is becoming substantially larger and more spacious. That there is space- or there will be some time in the future- for more industries, more fields, more suburbs, more people to come and live in Israel- the people Israeli leaders keep inviting to move from France, from the UK, from the US. But of course this would be an admissions that Israel is reaping some unjust benefit. That it might want peace, but it also wants to keep what it gained. That peace is a negative, because it implies an end to the progression of appropriations.
- guykdm 6y ago
  This land was owned by Jordan, not the Palestinians. It was lost by them in 1967 and they lay no claim to it today. Israel has every right to make this land as prosperous as the rest of the country.
  - Udik 6y ago
    So you think Israel should get the land. And with or without its current inhabitants?
    - guykdm 6y ago
      This land was Jordenian and Jordan doesn't want it. Jordan had it for 29 years and did not establish a Palestinian state. So the legal status lie needs to end. Because I like liberal democracies better than Arab trible dictatorships, I hope Israel would take as many Palestinians as possible. Without turning itself into one.
      - Udik 6y ago
        And what do you plan to do with the excess Palestinians? We're talking a few million people.
        guykdm 6y ago
        Nothing really. We can go on creating a great country for the Israeli Arabs, Jews, Druze and Christians. This conflict is slowly ending.
        Udik 6y ago
        > I hope Israel would take as many Palestinians as possible. Without turning itself into one. > We can go on creating a great country for the Israeli Arabs, Jews, Druze and Christians So you're arguing for the one-state solution. You do realize that that means the end of the nature of Israel as a "Jewish state" (definition that was just sanctioned in the law), and that a democracy in which half of the citizens are Palestinians is going to fundamentally change the nature of the country?

Udik 6y ago

> If you could assure them that giving up those regions would guarantee peace, you would win an election. Eh. Are you sure you thought this through? There are about 800 thousand Israelis living in occupied and annexed territories. That's 10% of the country. Do you think they would vote to leave their homes? That people would be happy to see house and land prices skyrocket? Come on, let's not kid ourselves: land is monstrously valuable, Israelis are reaping enormous gains from the occupation. You're pretending it's indifferent, that Israelis just want peace. But for the meanwhile they'll just keep getting more free land, thank you very much.

helge9210 6y ago
>That people would be happy to see house and land prices skyrocket? 70% would. Government would. >Israelis are reaping enormous gains from the occupation. Some israelis. Most just pay for it, not getting anything in return.
- Udik 6y ago
  >That people would be happy to see house and land prices skyrocket? > 70% would. Government would. Please. Stop and think. There are countries who had their youth decimated in atrocious wars to conquer portions of new territory proportionally smaller then the one Israel is occupying almost without damage. This cavalier attitude you're showing is part of the self deception of Israelis in regards to the occupation. They keep building cities in land that doesn't belong to them, but refuse to admit they're actually reaping any benefit. That the country is becoming substantially larger and more spacious. That there is space- or there will be some time in the future- for more industries, more fields, more suburbs, more people to come and live in Israel- the people Israeli leaders keep inviting to move from France, from the UK, from the US. But of course this would be an admissions that Israel is reaping some unjust benefit. That it might want peace, but it also wants to keep what it gained. That peace is a negative, because it implies an end to the progression of appropriations.
guykdm 6y ago
This land was owned by Jordan, not the Palestinians. It was lost by them in 1967 and they lay no claim to it today. Israel has every right to make this land as prosperous as the rest of the country.
- Udik 6y ago
  So you think Israel should get the land. And with or without its current inhabitants?
  - guykdm 6y ago
    This land was Jordenian and Jordan doesn't want it. Jordan had it for 29 years and did not establish a Palestinian state. So the legal status lie needs to end. Because I like liberal democracies better than Arab trible dictatorships, I hope Israel would take as many Palestinians as possible. Without turning itself into one.
    - Udik 6y ago
      And what do you plan to do with the excess Palestinians? We're talking a few million people.
      - guykdm 6y ago
        Nothing really. We can go on creating a great country for the Israeli Arabs, Jews, Druze and Christians. This conflict is slowly ending.
        Udik 6y ago
        > I hope Israel would take as many Palestinians as possible. Without turning itself into one. > We can go on creating a great country for the Israeli Arabs, Jews, Druze and Christians So you're arguing for the one-state solution. You do realize that that means the end of the nature of Israel as a "Jewish state" (definition that was just sanctioned in the law), and that a democracy in which half of the citizens are Palestinians is going to fundamentally change the nature of the country?