5 ms·

Is open source a loss leader for Apple, really? Or is it something they mostly get for free, but have to contribute a little back to shape it how they want? T

Is open source a loss leader for Apple, really? Or is it something they mostly get for free, but have to contribute a little back to shape it how they want? The point I read from GP, at least, was that open source is cheap for these big corps because they get a ton of benefit for it, but non-profit (either orgs or individuals) are bearing the brunt of the cost.

GeekyBear 6y ago
> contribute a little back Clang was certainly an in-house Apple project from the start, and it would be hard to claim that it hasn't been a project that has seen huge uptake outside of Apple.
- cataphract 6y ago
  This is not entirely accurate. LLVM was started by Chris Lattner before he was hired by Apple, which were probably spooked by gcc going GPLv3 by then.
  - GeekyBear 6y ago
    LLVM and Clang are both projects started by Chris Lattner, but they are not the same project. Do you mean that Clang leverages LLVM on the back end?
  - sirn 6y ago
    Yes for LLVM, but Clang was made entirely while Chris Lattner was employed by Apple[1]. Before Clang you have to use LLVM GCC frontend (llvm-gcc) to compile C code under LLVM, which was the default in Xcode until 5.x (although Clang was added in Xcode 4.x, I remembered it being quite unstable at the time). [1]: https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-dev/2007-July/000000.html https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-dev/2007-July/000000.ht... (announcement)
Jasper_ 6y ago
Apple is the primary contributor and maintainer of WebKit at this point since Google forked Blink off of it. There are consulting firms like Igalia that work on all three engines, and they're funded mostly from big clients like Bloomberg and banks so developers there can use flexbox and CSS grid everywhere. Google sometimes works on WebKit as well if they want to try to improve compatibility of websites, but the project is mostly Apple employees now.
lern_too_spel 6y ago
KHTML has an LGPL license. WebCore forked from that, so its source code must be released with a compatible license.
zelly 6y ago
WebKit, Swift, LLVM, that's it really. Relative to marketcap, Apple open sources the least, probably even less than Oracle, Intel, and friends. Swift and LLVM benefit from being open source--it would actually be unusable if it weren't. None of the things which give them market share like iMessage or their chip designs are remotely open source. It doesn't compare at all to Google's open source which includes Chromium, the entire Android operating system, Bazel, protocol buffers, Go--too many to list.
- fomine3 6y ago
  + CUPS. Also should mention that LLVM is huge thing. Totally agree that Apple not tend to open sourcing software unless needed.

GeekyBear 6y ago

> contribute a little back Clang was certainly an in-house Apple project from the start, and it would be hard to claim that it hasn't been a project that has seen huge uptake outside of Apple.

cataphract 6y ago
This is not entirely accurate. LLVM was started by Chris Lattner before he was hired by Apple, which were probably spooked by gcc going GPLv3 by then.
- GeekyBear 6y ago
  LLVM and Clang are both projects started by Chris Lattner, but they are not the same project. Do you mean that Clang leverages LLVM on the back end?
- sirn 6y ago
  Yes for LLVM, but Clang was made entirely while Chris Lattner was employed by Apple[1]. Before Clang you have to use LLVM GCC frontend (llvm-gcc) to compile C code under LLVM, which was the default in Xcode until 5.x (although Clang was added in Xcode 4.x, I remembered it being quite unstable at the time). [1]: https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-dev/2007-July/000000.html https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-dev/2007-July/000000.ht... (announcement)

Jasper_ 6y ago

Apple is the primary contributor and maintainer of WebKit at this point since Google forked Blink off of it. There are consulting firms like Igalia that work on all three engines, and they're funded mostly from big clients like Bloomberg and banks so developers there can use flexbox and CSS grid everywhere. Google sometimes works on WebKit as well if they want to try to improve compatibility of websites, but the project is mostly Apple employees now.

lern_too_spel 6y ago

KHTML has an LGPL license. WebCore forked from that, so its source code must be released with a compatible license.

zelly 6y ago

WebKit, Swift, LLVM, that's it really. Relative to marketcap, Apple open sources the least, probably even less than Oracle, Intel, and friends. Swift and LLVM benefit from being open source--it would actually be unusable if it weren't. None of the things which give them market share like iMessage or their chip designs are remotely open source. It doesn't compare at all to Google's open source which includes Chromium, the entire Android operating system, Bazel, protocol buffers, Go--too many to list.

fomine3 6y ago
+ CUPS. Also should mention that LLVM is huge thing. Totally agree that Apple not tend to open sourcing software unless needed.