4 ms·

Apple has to move against Epic here. If they are acting fairly with all developers (which was one of the questions to Tim Cook), then letting this be would be

Apple has to move against Epic here. If they are acting fairly with all developers (which was one of the questions to Tim Cook), then letting this be would be showing favoritism towards Epic. Or...make a sudden update to their TOS

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
If they take Fortnite down though, it's an open and shut antitrust case: Because even our broken antitrust law in the US understands consumers getting higher prices because of monopolies. This is why Epic is so loudly showcasing the price savings of bypassing Apple. If Apple takes down Fortnite here, the DOJ takes down the App Store.
- legohead 6y ago
  I think Apple's argument would be it's industry standard. Steam, Apple, Google all do this. Even the Epic store takes a cut, although much lower, but that's a case in Apple's favor (market competition).
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Apple has, in fact, used that argument. However, it also defeated that argument in the hearing: It set the "standard" to begin with, everyone is following them. The entire point of competition is so that other players can choose to come in at a lower price, which is good for consumers. And if Apple prevents Epic from selling direct with a much lower processing fee (note the 20% price cut is similar to the 30%/12% difference between their store fees), Apple is directly preventing competition that would lower prices for consumers.
    - jaegerpicker 6y ago
      How in the world is Apple preventing Epic from doing anything besides not following the rules of the App Store? If Epic wants to sell at a lower price they are free to do so in their own app store. Apple does not have to allow anyone on their platform. They built it, they own it, and they have the right to set it's rules. If Apple was the only mobile phone OS available then sure there is a case but iOS isn't even the most popular OS.
      - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
        Actually, Apple doesn't have the right to set it's rules and decide who can and can't be on their platform. Monopolies lose that, and Tim Cook was grilled on this exact topic by the House Antitrust Committee just days ago. Which is to say, even if the current laws allow Apple to act here, if it does, the next laws might prohibit it from doing so.
        jaegerpicker 6y ago
        It's not a monopoly, there is NO definition that fits for Apple being a monopoly. DOn't like Apple buy an Android. Android is more popular and has the same rules. Game Developer? Don't like Apple's rules develop for Android or Switch or PS4 or the Web or PC etc.... Apple sells a platform and it's successful but it's absolutely not the only platform around or even the biggest except in sales. Tim Cook wasn't grilled in good faith, he was grilled for political gain.
        stale2002 6y ago
        > It's not a monopoly, there is NO definition that fits for Apple being a monopoly. Sure there is. It has a monopoly over apps that consumers install on apple phones. That is a huge market, and one that apple has monopoly control over.
- jaegerpicker 6y ago
  It's not antitrust or a monopoly. I can play fortnite on a metric shit-ton of devices. Apple isn't blocking them from a market, it isn't price fixing. When you develop for Apple you sign an agreement to pay for the service the App Store provides. You might not like the price but using a bad reading of the law to get your way is bad for everyone.
  - indymike 6y ago
    Just because there is an agreement does not mean that agreement is fair or even legal. Epic is big enough to handle an "epic" lawsuit here and force the issue. And the game is popular enough that it not being available on iOS devices is a hit to the platform. This one will be interesting.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

If they take Fortnite down though, it's an open and shut antitrust case: Because even our broken antitrust law in the US understands consumers getting higher prices because of monopolies. This is why Epic is so loudly showcasing the price savings of bypassing Apple. If Apple takes down Fortnite here, the DOJ takes down the App Store.

legohead 6y ago
I think Apple's argument would be it's industry standard. Steam, Apple, Google all do this. Even the Epic store takes a cut, although much lower, but that's a case in Apple's favor (market competition).
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Apple has, in fact, used that argument. However, it also defeated that argument in the hearing: It set the "standard" to begin with, everyone is following them. The entire point of competition is so that other players can choose to come in at a lower price, which is good for consumers. And if Apple prevents Epic from selling direct with a much lower processing fee (note the 20% price cut is similar to the 30%/12% difference between their store fees), Apple is directly preventing competition that would lower prices for consumers.
  - jaegerpicker 6y ago
    How in the world is Apple preventing Epic from doing anything besides not following the rules of the App Store? If Epic wants to sell at a lower price they are free to do so in their own app store. Apple does not have to allow anyone on their platform. They built it, they own it, and they have the right to set it's rules. If Apple was the only mobile phone OS available then sure there is a case but iOS isn't even the most popular OS.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      Actually, Apple doesn't have the right to set it's rules and decide who can and can't be on their platform. Monopolies lose that, and Tim Cook was grilled on this exact topic by the House Antitrust Committee just days ago. Which is to say, even if the current laws allow Apple to act here, if it does, the next laws might prohibit it from doing so.
      - jaegerpicker 6y ago
        It's not a monopoly, there is NO definition that fits for Apple being a monopoly. DOn't like Apple buy an Android. Android is more popular and has the same rules. Game Developer? Don't like Apple's rules develop for Android or Switch or PS4 or the Web or PC etc.... Apple sells a platform and it's successful but it's absolutely not the only platform around or even the biggest except in sales. Tim Cook wasn't grilled in good faith, he was grilled for political gain.
        stale2002 6y ago
        > It's not a monopoly, there is NO definition that fits for Apple being a monopoly. Sure there is. It has a monopoly over apps that consumers install on apple phones. That is a huge market, and one that apple has monopoly control over.
jaegerpicker 6y ago
It's not antitrust or a monopoly. I can play fortnite on a metric shit-ton of devices. Apple isn't blocking them from a market, it isn't price fixing. When you develop for Apple you sign an agreement to pay for the service the App Store provides. You might not like the price but using a bad reading of the law to get your way is bad for everyone.
- indymike 6y ago
  Just because there is an agreement does not mean that agreement is fair or even legal. Epic is big enough to handle an "epic" lawsuit here and force the issue. And the game is popular enough that it not being available on iOS devices is a hit to the platform. This one will be interesting.